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Difference in axle bushings


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#1 Shruska55

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 12:09 PM

This question is specifically relating to the technical differences between bronze bushing types.

 

I see multiple manufacturers of bushings. The adjustable bushing appear to have a smaller internal axle hub diameter to allow for greater accuracy of alignment. For a full sized 7/32" tube bushing, I'm seeing prices from $1.50 upwards a pair at various seller sites. Adjustables have a similar price spread.

 

What makes a .$3.99 v $1.50 bushing set that much better?  Is it tolerances? Material? or is there some technical advantage manufactured into the bushing? I'm running in Retro Can-Am, F1, Flexi NASCAR and Indycar groups.

 

Thanks,

ScottH


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#2 DavidR

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 12:20 PM

The JK that have a smaller barrell can be mounted low in the chassis, so on flexis you could run a much smaller tire than with standard bushings and still pass tech. 


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#3 Racer36

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 02:01 PM

The Mossetti bushings are the best I’ve seen so far. They have an internal oil retention ring and are made from a pretty stout material. They last very well but I’ve not seen one gall or grab the axle like the Slick 7 ones can.


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#4 Shruska55

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 07:00 PM

Thanks. I'll take a look at the three options mentioned.


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#5 Bucky

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 07:43 PM

In flexis I personally use oillites instead of bronze bushings. A lot of racers swear by Slick 7 bushings, but the only pair I've ever owned bound up in practice after liberally oiling them. If you're set on bushings I'd try the Mossetti bushings since they have a channel for oil.

For the retro cars (Can Am and F1) I believe all, or at least most, sanctioning bodies allow the use of bearings. A decent bearing should outlast a bushing and have less drag. I've never tested back to back, so I have no clue if this really equates to any time gains.
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#6 Highnoon

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:25 PM

I’ve been using slick 7 and you have to oil them, I usually oil before practice, before race and half way thru race. I forgot to oil one before practice locked up. I’m going back to oilights, trying Koford which look pretty good. I’ll see how they perform.


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#7 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 11:04 PM

Mid America 3/32 adjustable bushings are locally machined oilites.


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#8 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 09:44 AM

At $10 roger can keep them.
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#9 Phil Hackett

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 01:01 PM

Machining oilite is very expensive due to material cost. Oilites are sintered material and are much more economical to mold to final shape and size than machine to size.

 

The holdback on doing so is quantity and minimum purchase. Mura (way back when) would buy (IIRC) 250,000 to 300,000 oilites at a time and the Oilite manufacturer wanted 1,000,000 part minimum runs.

 

Slot car racing has become so fractured and specific that no one is ever going to order that kind of quantities anymore. That means more expense and semi-custom parts (even *more* money) The lack of "standards", much like what ROAR enforced at the start, has cost slot car racing far more than you can imagine. There's no reason for 2 different axle sizes (4 if you include 3mm and 2mm axles) as an example.


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#10 Shruska55

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 05:43 PM

So some of the difference relates to economies of scale and possible brand name value added cost?

 

I found this link Oilites v Bronze Bushings  from another site posted in 2014 as well as this one Brass of bronze oilites from SlotBlog in 2011. Both threads discuss the care and feeding of Oilites and some of the issues that come up if that is not done regularly. Lubrication is, of course, essential to reduce wear and tear due to friction heat.

 

For a limited budget racer, generally using Hawk Retro or Eagle motors, will I see a difference between an Oilite v non-Oilite type bushings? Also, is some form of petrol based oil the only type of lube that can be used? What about spray graphite or spray white lithium grease?

 

Experimenting is necessary, I understand. So I'll probably be buying a variety of options to see which suits my driving style.

 

Thanks again!

ScottH


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#11 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 07:38 PM

Sintered bronze is a process of compessing small beads of bronze into a shape and therefore allowing space for oil to be retained within the bushing. "Oilite" is a trademarked name for these and is like Kleenex in that regard.

 

Bronze rod is solid and many bushings are machined from it.  Without frequent oiling, they will seize on the shaft.


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#12 DavidR

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 09:30 PM

On all but oilites you must oil them or they will lock up after running for several heats
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#13 Bill from NH

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 09:48 PM

Bronze doesn't absorb any oil like oilites do. It depends upon a surface oiling. When oilites run out of oil, they wear out too. I like to burn the oil out of new oilites, While they're still warm, I drop they in clean oil. to absorb. If it's a bushing to be soldered in, I solder them in dry, then while still hot, manually apply oil. 


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#14 SpeedyNH

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 06:21 PM

i've had the S7s lock up with regular petroleum based oil, but synthetic or silicon/teflon oil cured the problem. 


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#15 crazyphysicsteacher

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 05:50 PM

I run slick 7 when possible. They have a little more support than oilites. They will wear the Axle more and the Axle may wear before the bushing. There are still some that I use the old standard but that is when they fit the chassis better.
The slick 7vs also stand up to the wear from a gear better. If you really want the best, run a reamer through after you install them.

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#16 Shruska55

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 06:33 PM

Is using synthetic preferred for all bearing/bushing and even ball bearings or is there a technical reason to use regular petro products?

 

Just saying if I buy a qt of Mobil 1, it'll go a loooooongg way...

 

ScottH


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#17 ThunderThumb

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 07:07 PM

While on the subject , I have noticed bronze or oil lite material transfer to the axle , everything is oiled well , the axle has no binding when installed , anybody else have this problem
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#18 SpeedyNH

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 07:38 PM

i think that you want very thin synthetic oil for high speed bearings.  can you get a quart of 10 weight? 

for example, 10W30 is an artificially modified 30 weight oil that only thickens up as much as an unmodified ten weight would at low temperatures, hence the Winter 10W designation. 


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#19 boxerdog

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 10:35 PM

You can get 0W

 

https://www.drivenra...racing-oil.html


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#20 Shruska55

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 10:42 PM

According to Mobil.com, the company has Mobil 1 synthetic racing oils in 0W-30 and 0W50.  weights.

 

Understanding the tech is a bit over my head, but they are designed for very high heat applications. Perhaps this might be an option for all friction surfaces I might encounter here?

 

ScottH


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#21 Shruska55

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 10:43 PM

David, You post came up whilst I was putting up the Mobil 1 ??

 

Thanks,

ScottH


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#22 swodem

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 12:24 AM

Slick 7 must be run with a bushing oil, not a Ball Bearing oil. Bushing oils will hang in there longer, I have run many enduros with S7 Bushings and no problem oiling every 30min driver change this way. Would not get away with this if you use a thin oil not designed for bushings - seen many seizes due to wrong oil.

 

I think the advantage with solid S7 style bushings is their closer tolerance, lesser wear and therefore better handling. I've never known someone to complain their handling was crap cos their S7 bushing had worn and axle was loose

 

Oilites are different. They do 'hold' oil in their 'gaps, but they also have a lesser surface area that makes galling less likely. They seem to be able to survive on less oil, I have only ever seen one pair seize. I don't think though, that they last as long.

 

Nowadays, with very cheap Ball Bearings from Asia, I don't understand why we continue to pay more for a bushing.....BB are superior in almost every way, even cheap ones


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#23 SpeedyNH

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 10:38 PM

the 0W-30 and 0W-50 will act like 30 and 50 weights respectively at room temperature, like i tried to explain eabove: the nnW number is what that equivalent oil would thicken to, in the cold weather.  not applicable here. 

i like the Zero weight!  i didn't know that anybody made that stuff. 


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#24 Eddie Fleming

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Posted Yesterday, 07:48 AM

I have some Mobil-1 0W-20 that I bought at the local auto parts store. Been using it for years for everything. S7 bushings to ball bearings.
 
It works great.
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