13 replies to this topic

[dc-65x]

 

 

 

 

[MSwiss]

Is it my imagination, or does the Viper chassis look like it doesn't have a drop arm?

 

IOW, like the bargain Tornado, that eventually came out and guys loved for only $6.98.

 

It's vast superiority on the Engleman seems a little bit strange.

 

And where did they did up a 250 ft. Engleman?

[MattD]

Mike, I don't know if all of the Vipers had a drop arm.    That same frame is available without a drop arm.      A very similar frame was used under the Astro V and it did have a drop arm and a rear extension for body  mounting.    There seems to be 2 different length drop arms to fit that frame.

[MSwiss]

Matt,
Do you agree the one in the article doesn't appear to have one?

I'm just wondering if that was the key to it's great performance in the test.

IIRC, with the Dynamic chassis, back in the day, we would eliminate as much hinge action as possible.

My point is that the drop arm is probably the most not needed feature, that was conceived in the 60's.

[MattD]

It looks like the Toronado frame, doesn't it?    The Viper was probably a pretty fast car back then, compared to  some of the others,   It had a good motor and no weight, no aero resistance at all.   

The drop arm  was probably never needed, although, some experts say it was because of rough tracks.   That may have been part of the original engineering, but I'm sure the engineers quickly found out it wasn't needed.    I'm sure 12 year old kids thought it was needed and wheelies were great.   So it stayed for a long time.

 

Probably most  of those design engineers, were working at Sears selling shoes a year earlier!!

[SpeedyNH]

i used to put drop arms on mine well past the end of the 60's because i liked cars with more b4lls than brains and i could come out of the corners on one rear tire and the flag. i do have a wall full of trophies to prove that it worked, at least in my area. later, we had to go to plumbers. which i call vaguely a derivative of the same thing.

[don.siegel]

From having run on a few rough tracks, I can say that drop arms help in that case; even in certain banks they seem to help the car stay on the track. 

 

Anyway, a 60s slot car isn't a slot car without the drop arm! 

 

Mike, the Viper chassis really doesn't look like it has the drop arm; just checked mine, and it does have one! In an article about the same time (MCS, March 66), the chassis is without a drop arm. 

 

Don 

[tonyp]

Drop arms helped on bumpy early tracks. Load them up with lead and you could get over just about any seam or surface ripple.

Some of the tracks I’ve raced on as a kid you wouldn’t believe. Lol.


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[MSwiss]

Don,
I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

Did you have cars that didn't have drop arms, that ran lousy on rough tracks, and you converted them to drop arms, and they ran better?

If so, the drop arm sounds like it helped.

If not then it's just a guess.

Everyone talks about how well the AMT chassis works as a vintage chassis.

No drop arm, just heavy brass.

That said, that's with modern tracks, that are usually way smoother.

Was the AMT chassis also a strong runner, back in the day?

I don't remember them being used at my local raceway.

[don.siegel]

Nope, never did a controlled test, Mike, certainly not at the time! Probably wouldn't even have thought about building a 1/24 car without a drop arm... 

 

I'm mostly basing my claim on recent experience on a friend's small 4-lane home track, with some tight, climbing turns, where the drop arms definitely help. And a few of my vintage cars on the Bordo AMF Black, where I couldn't fit a drop arm and it seems it would have helped...

 

Yep, small sample size, I know. It's an article of faith! 

 

I don't remember ever seeing the AMT chassis at the time either, but as you know I raced on a very local track, and our sample group was limited too... there were a lot more cars we never saw than ones we saw! 

 

Just realized something interesting: at the time, the only one of the cars tested that I had was the MPC Lancia-Ferrari, but in kit form - I raced it on E. Randolph, but mostly managed to tear up the hypoid gear! What did I know at 14? It did seem to have a lot of power - did you guys have batteries? 

 

These days, I have all the cars in the article, but haven't gotten around to running any comparison tests... The regional differences are rather interesting, especially in terms of gear ratios between the different cars. I think the only thing I would have done differently was choose a shorter track, like a Black or orange, and only use one of the two larger tracks he used - it might have given the Rannallis, for instance, more of a fighting chance. 

 

Don  

[MSwiss]

I never got there when they had the track.

I went there for Estes model rockets, when they were sort of a new phenomena, in either late 68, or early 69.

The track had been removed to expand the hobby shop.

They still had parts.

Among other things, a $24.50(?) Mura Pink Cukras motor.

After stopping by there pretty regularly, after school, they hired me in 70, or early 71, when I was still 15.

One of great perks was getting to go to the industry only, Chicago Hobby Show, at 15 or 16.

My boss had to write me a note, so I could get my pass to get in. Lol

My home track was B & C Hobby shop, on the southwest side.

A lot of Cox and Classic cars, and the more dedicated guys, Dynamic cars from parts, which we called scratchbuilding.

[SpeedyNH]

as for the AMT's, the only time they ever worked for me in the 60's was when i'd cut one down to fit a sportsman body. none of my other cars worked on the track we visited and i somehow won the race with it. i thought it was a stone, but it was the only thing i had which would go around and and i just got lucky. i never ran it again. 

[elvis44102]

when elyrias slot shop joined the Cleveland series of circuit races in late 60s our six lane track had a 30 foot straight with about five "humps" maybe 3 inches in height.. before Paul hubbell removed the humps it was hilarious to watch special built cars with massive drop arms crash and burn in the weeks of practice before a big race..we raced with "normal" drop arms with a little more weight but not much and just goosed the bumps ourselves (no special technique)...now these bumps were not the same as the bumps from poor track construction which came with un-level track sections for good measure..we seemed to have maybe 3/16ths movement which got a spring damper on it...the only cure was to blip the bump generally after a few launches lol

[mike1972chev]

Just to add a bit. The EARLY MADE Vipers I have seen did not have a drop arm chassis. LATER MADE Vipers I have seen DID have a short drop arm. The two I have owned that did have a drop arm had metallic red bodies on them. (I have seen several of the drop arm vipers for sale on EBAY as well.) 

 

Maybe someone can 100% confirm this???