51 replies to this topic

[F1fletch]

Here is a demo of what mine is doing.  The blue LED is showing 'power' on so with sound up this should make sense.
 
 
https://www.youtube....h?v=X7FU_vtqrkY
 
 

Love it!! Great Job Bro this is all you need seems to me.

[JHMerriman]

My ProParts 3 will keep the car moving without stopping. I need to pick up one of them fancy 3rd eyes lol. I went the budget route I guess lol

[Jay Guard]

Guys:

Thanks for the clarification of how anti-brakes work. I can see how that would be a huge help with the light and powerful Eurosport cars with the crazy strong magnets.  However I'm surprised that it would be good for the GT-12's since they don't have near the brakes of the Eurosports.  Then again things may have changed as I haven't raced GT-12's for over 10 years.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

I can't remember the name currently (having one of those senior moments) but there was a pretty nice controller about 10 years or so ago that had a "brake then release" option. The guys hat we're using them really liked that. I wonder if anti brake is something similar.


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[Phil Smith]

If one has never driven a B Production car, with a Competitor C can motor, geared 7-41, on my flat track, one might not get the need of anti-braking.

Back when Sano Dave was alive, guys would offer him B Production cars for our Great Lakes ISRA Series races.

He would always say "let me try it and see if I can get it around smoothly with no brakes. If I can, I'll race. If not, I'd sooner just marshall because I'm just not going to have a good time."

Like Phil and James said, "coast" has been around in HO cars, with their heavy magnetic attraction to the rails, for years.

I seem to remember some of my HO friends mentioning it, 30 or more, years ago.

 

 

Anti brake is used with Eurosport type cars which will come to a screeching stop even when the regular brakes are completely off, which makes them difficult to drive. Anti brake (feeding some power to the motor even with braking) a feature on very high end controllers, smooths out the braking.

 

Cheers

 

I wasn't aware of this. I always thought it was an HO thing.

 

There was one of the many SlotBlog discussions on whether pricey controllers were needed or not. One poster mentioned something about you had to have one to be competitive in Eurosport. At the time that didn't make any sense to me. Now it does.

 

Difalco has adjustable coast on his HO controllers. I wonder if you can get it on the 1/24th controllers.

 

NEW! Independent coast adjustment. Racers told us they wanted the coast to work independently of our sensitivity adjustment and here it is! Now you can set your coast power and it will not be affected by your sensitivity settings.

 

NEW! Hi/low coast range switch. On/off switch lets you choose between slow or fast coast speed ranges. Adjust any motor for the perfect coast speed.

[MSwiss]

I can't remember the name currently (having one of those senior moments) but there was a pretty nice controller about 10 years or so ago that had a "brake then release" option. The guys hat we're using them really liked that. I wonder if anti brake is something similar.
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You are most likely thinking about the Jay Gee.

Guys:
Thanks for the clarification of how anti-brakes work. I can see how that would be a huge help with the light and powerful Eurosport cars with the crazy strong magnets.  However I'm surprised that it would be good for the GT-12's since they don't have near the brakes of the Eurosports.  Then again things may have changed as I haven't raced GT-12's for over 10 years.

On my track, B Production, with its longer stack arm, could use anti-coast, IMO, a bit more than classes with G12 motors.

With almost 6-1 gear ratio's, they have instant acceleration, and corresponding instant brakes.

I thought using an 8 tooth pinion would kill the brakes, but the motor loses some of that instant on, pulling out of the turns, and usually the lap times are slower.

And it diminishes some of the gyro effect, that segment of racers think is important for the best handling.

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

Thanks Mike. That was it.


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[F1fletch]

I just sent Jim an email to ask if he can add it!! Lol
I have the top end one with traction control and that sure would be great if he can add it

[BrettC]

I think the TruSpeed MTII has what you guys are calling anti brake, the controller is aimed at the HO guys.

[Gill A]

You can have anti brake on Carsteen CS02 & CS04 controllers, it works great and does not cost a fortune.

[Jim Difalco]

Coast has been used for many years in HO racing as others have said in this thread. You can set it high enough so it will drive a car through a certain section of track without ever touching the trigger. It is a very different way of driving in HO and some like it but many national champion racers like Roger Porcelli in HO drive with brakes.

 

I have played around with coast/anti-brake for 1/24 controllers and I was not happy with the reliability at that time. Having a controller with the transistors in the "ON" state all the time when using coast, the wiper bands and then also using them for the choke means they never get a rest. Which means fans must be added etc.

 

So a coast controller is on my list of things to do but not near the top. Most likely look for it next summer in advance of the IRRA race in Jersey next year. The top of my list has the introduction of my new drag controllers, here on Slotblog, in a few days. Next will be a lower priced controller with just sensitivity for new racers then a wire choke controller next spring.

[gotboostedvr6]

Here is a demo of what mine is doing.  The blue LED is showing 'power' on so with sound up this should make sense.
 
 
https://www.youtube....h?v=X7FU_vtqrkY

Awesome!

Did you use two different size caps for each setting?

[Phil Smith]

What about adding something like this?

 

https://www.amazon.c...la-687131066147

[iv_man]

Awesome!

Did you use two different size caps for each setting?

This idea isn't really driven by caps.  More so by use of a timer to hold some connections.

[Bazzie]

Have'n't modified any commercial ones, but I updated the software on my own PWM cotroller which now sports anti brake and a current choke to which I've added a setting that gives it an exponential effect, rather than the linear voltage divider. Both work a charm, especially on G12 motors where you really need it

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[Raymond Van Campenhout]

Coast has been used for many years in HO racing as others have said in this thread. You can set it high enough so it will drive a car through a certain section of track without ever touching the trigger. It is a very different way of driving in HO and some like it but many national champion racers like Roger Porcelli in HO drive with brakes.

 

I have played around with coast/anti-brake for 1/24 controllers and I was not happy with the reliability at that time. Having a controller with the transistors in the "ON" state all the time when using coast, the wiper bands and then also using them for the choke means they never get a rest. Which means fans must be added etc.

 

So a coast controller is on my list of things to do but not near the top. Most likely look for it next summer in advance of the IRRA race in Jersey next year. The top of my list has the introduction of my new drag controllers, here on Slotblog, in a few days. Next will be a lower priced controller with just sensitivity for new racers then a wire choke controller next spring.

Hi Jim, how about using a separate (evt. single) transistor for the coast/anti-brake function? This way the power transistors wouldn't be working all the time, and the coasting one only at braking.

 

BTW your new controller shell is top of the bill ! What an improvement from the Parma and its' copies...

 

Very best regards,

 

Raymond

[Johnny]

BTW your new controller shell is top of the bill ! What an improvement from the Parma and its' copies...

 

Very best regards,

 

Raymond

Copy That!

I got mine today (metallic Grey - Clear Out Of Stock) look and feel is excellent 

[Eddie Fleming]

Just a little off topic But

 

I have never tried diode breaking but I saw somewhere that because of the voltage threshold to pass current diode brakes would give brakes down to some point and then let the car roll once the motor slowed to that point. The point depending on the number of diodes in series in the brake line. 

 

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

[Rob Voska]

Just a little off topic But

 

I have never tried diode breaking but I saw somewhere that because of the voltage threshold to pass current diode brakes would give brakes down to some point and then let the car roll once the motor slowed to that point. The point depending on the number of diodes in series in the brake line. 

 

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

 

Works great.  I built a single transistor controller and used it for years.  Never had a breaking issue. Yes it does reduce breaking as the car slows.

 

https://abslotsport....iode brakes.pdf

[Jim Difalco]

Raymond, I have tried a separate transistor for the coast to give the main transistors a rest. It worked fine I just need more development time with the whole circuit until I am happy with it.

 

Ray and Johnny, thanks for the nice feedback on my handles.

 

Diode braking, as soon as you find that on position #2 you have too much brakes and switch position #3 you have too little brakes you will discard diode braking real fast. Not a fan.

[Raymond Van Campenhout]

Raymond, I have tried a separate transistor for the coast to give the main transistors a rest. It worked fine I just need more development time with the whole circuit until I am happy with it.

 

Ray and Johnny, thanks for the nice feedback on my handles.

 

Diode braking, as soon as you find that on position #2 you have too much brakes and switch position #3 you have too little brakes you will discard diode braking real fast. Not a fan.

Hi Jim, 

My first try-outs with diode braking did exactly what you describe, the steps were too big between diodes... However when changing to Schottky-barrier diodes instead of the conventional rectifier diodes, the problem disappeared completely... I now have perfectly working diode brakes, steps between diodes are now 0.2 V instead of 0.7 or 0.8 V with rectifier diodes. I use 1N5819 Schottky diodes on a 12 position rotary switch, pos 12 = full brakes,pos 11 = full brakes less 0.2 V and so on till position 2 = full brakes less 2.0 V, position 1 = no brakes or eventually coast/anti-brake. Works like a charm!

 

Very best regards, 

 

Raymond

[Jim Difalco]

Raymond, sounds like a little better set up that way. Nice work.

[F1fletch]

Sounds like there are some solid ideas about how to add anti-brake (coast), now we need Jim to make a 50th? Anniversary Limited Edition Model with Anti-Brake and Choke to his already fantastic controller!!!

[crazyphysicsteacher]

Just a little off topic But

 

I have never tried diode breaking but I saw somewhere that because of the voltage threshold to pass current diode brakes would give brakes down to some point and then let the car roll once the motor slowed to that point. The point depending on the number of diodes in series in the brake line. 

 

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

I have and am thinking of trying to add it to my difalco backup controller.  I used it years ago on a regular parma turbo controller and then on a DR30.  The steps were a bit much for the faster cars as I moved on and I switched to a 3rd eye fet 2 with the ewire. 

I have made up a copy of the older 6 position switch as a novice racer at the local track tried my old parma turbo and knocked about 0.3s off his times using the diode brake setup.

For those wondering, the diode brakes are opposite of the coast setup.  The diode brake allows braking at first and then cuts the brake circuit once the voltage from the motor drops below a certain point.  If the voltage goes back up above the cutoff, the brakes will activate again and so on.  It adds some roll into the corner that you just cannot get easily, unless the controller curve allows it.  It is great feature for those running on reduced voltages as the brakes don't upset the car as much and help the car to then pick backup into the corner.  You get lots of braking on the fast sections entering corners and less on the slower corners.  

 

  My 3rd curve settings allows for just enough when I get off the brake so I have not had a need but the difalco just has a hard curve to like for me, plus I like to tinker.

 

For those that doubt it, i had a wing car that ran a hawk 7 on the track.  Ran mid to low 4's and the experienced guys could only pull 3.9's for basis.  When I had the brakes turned down about 3 steps and I let go of the controller to have the car stop, the car would slow then roll and then slow again as the voltage went back up from the roll down the incline of the track.  Kinda a cool thing to watch but really weird.    

[Raymond Van Campenhout]

 

In my case I am using the sensitivity knob as the 'speed' setting for the antibrake.  Like the very first part of the trigger causing the car to move.  But I have put an adjustable timer on to set the time (think distance) of the powered roll on.  When that time is up the car is in effect still coasting but in reality you've already driven away through the next part of the track.

 

So with the timer the car will not keep rolling on like a train if you release the trigger.  Just for the time set so maybe a few feet or more depending on how you set the antibrake.

 

 

 

Hi Ivan, could you tell  (or show)  us what timer you used and how you hooked it up? If that isn't a trade secret of course...  

 

I really would like to experiment a bit with anti-bake, and your's seems an affordable approach towards this.

 

Thanks in advance

 

VBR

 

Raymond