24 replies to this topic

[Alchemist]

I remember my K&B Cobra Daytona Coupe RTR Slot car and was curious as to what type of motors came with the vintage 60's 1/24 K&B Slot cars please?

 

 

Were they "Kemtron" motors and did they come only with this type of motor?

 

To me, they sort of resemble that type of motor.

 

Any info would be appreciated.

 

Thank you.

 

Ernie

[Bill from NH]

Ernie, PDL is a good source to ask too. Lately, he's been frequently posting (for him) on here & on SlotForum too. 

[Tom Katsanis]

I believe it's a K&B motor called the challenger not sure who made it for them.

[Alchemist]

Thanks Bill!

 

Tom - Yes!  I recall hearing about the "Challenger" motor; but I too have no idea who manufactured them for K&B.

 

Appreciate the info!

 

Thank you.

 

Ernie

[Tom Katsanis]

There is a little info on the challenger motor on this thread.

http://slotblog.net/...tors-and-volts/

They also made chassis using the 36d bobcat ,hellcat motor & some chassis with 26d motors later on.

[Paul Menkens]

that motor is a K&B Challenger, they had a faster version called the "Super Challenger" the main difference between them was that the "Super" had a longer arm, a picture of the "Super Challenger" can be found on page 101 of the 1967 Car Model Technical Journal Of Model Car Racing. the same motors were used in the Aurora 1/32 cars that came with their racing sets, These motors were made in the U.S.A. by K&B and were not sold under any other brand names (Aurora owned K&B)

[Paul Menkens]

The Aurora sets with these motors in them had 18volt power packs, I have 3 of these, the 2 1/32 scale ones that came with my set I had as a kid and a 1/24 scale Ferrari 259 GTO that I bought for the high price of $2.25 in kit form from Discount Hobby Distributors, they still run 55 years later, never were very fast though, the Ferrari couldn't make it through the banked turn on the Red Imperial track at one of the local raceways

[Isaac S.]

Very odd type of motor, have a flat comm. Very good motors that were actually pretty powerful for the chassis. Faster than a Cox sidewinder. 

[Paul Menkens]

you see flat comms from time to time in industrial motors, I think the reason for them is that the brushes last longer as they don't have to be curved where they contact the comm.

Faster then a Cox sidewinder? A guy was over this weekend with an OLD (short drop arm) 36d powered Cox Cheetah and it moved along pretty well, it's been so long since I ran my Ferrari that I can't remember if it was as fast as that one was or not

[slotcarone]

Pretty sure it was a take off on the ThunderJet500 HO motor design. Same company after all!

[Alan Dodson]

 I owned both a K&B Daytona Cobra and a Cox Lotus 30 with a 36D motor back in the mid sixties. My recollection was that the Cox car was somewhat faster. The main problem with the K&B motor was it had a weak magnet, a short stack, and no easy way to change the gear ratio. The Cox sidewinder was also difficult to change gears but the massive 36D had enough torque to overcome the 3:1 gear ratio. Later I built a Cox sidewinder with a Russkit 23 16D motor and a clear butyrate body and it was quite an upgrade to either of the older cars.

[don.siegel]

The main difference in the Super Challenger is that it has a conventional barrel commutator instead of the disc on the regular Challenger, plus 6V windings. As said above, the disc commutator was undoubtedly inspired by Aurora's T-jet. 

 

A Super Challenger can be about as fast as a standard 36D, but the Challenger stands no chance. Last year I won a stock hard-body kit vintage race with a K&B Ferrari P2 and it was very impressive on the 50 foot straight, easily as fast as or faster than the 36D powered cars in there, including a Cox Chaparral 2D with a Nascar motor (maybe not on a par with the faster Pactra/Testor Hemis). It was also more impressive on this track than on some of the shorter tracks I've run on - or maybe it just needed a dozen years to get run in! 

 

I did a thread here awhile ago called K&B chassis evolution, which will give you an idea of the different motors used. 

 

Don 

 

 

[Isaac S.]

In my experience the Cox 36D IS much more powerful but they handle horribly while the Challenger has much more neutral handling and you can slide it through a corner much better. 

[MSwiss]

K & B cars were somewhat prevalent in this area.

I might of been aware the Challenger had a flat/pancake comm, but this thread refreshed my memory.

Pretty cool how there is different color wire on each pole.

[Alchemist]

My Brethren!

 

Thank you so much for your input and reading about your cars certainly brought back fond memories of my Cobra Daytona Coupe.

 

Thanks again for your time!

 

Ernie

[don.siegel]

Always glad to help Ernie! 

 

Here's the link to the K&B chassis evolution thread. 

http://slotblog.net/...volution/page-2

 

It also reminded me that the original Challenger came in two versions, with white, then black endplates. Not sure if there were other differences, altho I would have guessed they hotted it up a bit, after seeing how slow the originals were! 

 

I didn't buy any K&B's at the time, but I have a very specific memory of seeing my first one, at the store over the Walgreens on East Randolph street in downtown Chicago (right Mike?). It was a Ford GT, really smooth and pulled wheelies down the straight! After I got to know those cars, I wondered how he managed that, since the motor is pretty weak and runs a 2.67:1 gear ratio! Maybe a strong spring... Still, they were probably competitive against the other kit cars at the time. 

 

Don 

[Dave Crevie]

I had one of the Challenger frames that was given to me by someone who had burned the motor. I had built a reputation for rewinding burned out motors for guys, using a hotter wind. With the disc com, I had no interest in rewinding the motor, so the guy gave me the main center section in trade for rewinding a different motor. He kept the body, wheels, guide flag and gears. I built a drag car out of the frame using a Kemtron/KTM motor. I put a butyrate body on it, and on a good run it scooted under the parachute in the shut down and hit the brick wall full boogie. I salvaged the motor and wheels, the rest went in the s**tcan. 

 

Mike's picture of that arm with the three different colored windings is interesting. The wire I used to get at the local radio shop had a different color for each of the different wire gauges. Green was 31, red 28, and copper 26. Makes me wonder.  

[Alchemist]

Hi Don,

 

That is very impressive to recollect the first K&B you saw way way back then!

 

Interesting how we can remember memories from long ago, yet I put down a tool for a few minutes and can't find it! ! !

 

Only to find it in the refrigerator!   hahahaha

 

Ernie

[Phil Smith]

Pretty cool how there is different color wire on each pole.

Screenshot_20210310-091059_Samsung Internet.jpg

Screenshot_20210310-091119_Samsung Internet.jpg

 

That's pretty crazy! I've never seen a Challenger arm before. It looks like a T-Jet Christmas tree arm.

 

 

[Mark Onofri]

Until recently I was under the assumption that K&B was the only one with a vertical com. While trying to identify some 1/32nd scale cars, someone had pointed out that strombecker also had a vertical com. Just bought a challenger motor to go into a K&B Tipo 60 Maserati. I didn't buy it for any particular reason other than 2 match the body and motor to the same manufacturer. By the way, the strombecker variant(s)that I have are in line. Who'da thunk it?

[don.siegel]

Right you are Mark: that's what we generally describe as a "disk" commutator, and the later version of the Strombecker open-frame motor used that layout. 

 

The original K&B Challenger is of course the original Aurora T-Jet motor just turned on its side - only logical since they were designed by the same guy, Derek Brand. 

 

I think there were maybe one or two more slot car motors using this layout, but can't remember them offhand; I do have a model train motor  of this type adapted for slot car use, but with a much more sophisticated brush arrangement. 

 

Don 

[Mark Onofri]

If I'm not mistaken, it was you done that posted that that was a strombecker motor a scorcher I believe.

[Mark Onofri]

Typo: it's supposed to say Don

[don.siegel]

Got it, thanks Mark. 

 

Nope, the Strombecker motor with that type of com was mostly in their set cars; it didn't have a name, just a number. The Scorcher 7 was one of their inline aftermarket motors, mostly based on the original Scuttler. 

 

Don 

[Mark Onofri]

I think strombecker used that name(scorcher)generically. I do have a couple 7 Pole scorcher sevens, looking forward to put them in something.