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CR102 break-in?


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#1 blue&orange

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 05:30 PM

Since the previous CR102 thread is locked, and my first batch of CR102s should arrive this weekend. Any suggestions on break-in, or not?


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#2 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 05:46 PM

One of the distributor web sites said the brushes were rotated so the break in should be quick. 

 

If at all.


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#3 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 06:54 PM

I am excited but also have reservations about the now correct brush orientation. To eliminate brush burn, the curve has to be perfect. It very well may be but I have doubts.

I bet someone will find a way to break these in a way so they have minimal brush burn and that will be the magic bullet so to speak.


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#4 snolde

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 08:14 PM

I have ordered two of the new CR2 motors.

and a couple of 10 tooth ARP pinions.

When i receive them I am going to put them on a power supply at about 4 volts for 10 min and see what happens.

Lots of unknowns with a new product.

Hopefully these motors will be more constant than the HR and last longer.

Also, the Ball Bearings in the CR2 should stop the two speed problem that the HR has.

I think the bushings in the HR are the cause of the two speed problem.Just my opinion.


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#5 MSwiss

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 08:43 PM

One of the distributor web sites said the brushes were rotated so the break in should be quick.

  

I am excited but also have reservations about the now correct brush orientation. To eliminate brush burn, the curve has to be perfect. It very well may be but I have doubts.

 
They posted that early on, based on me looking at some of the motors, and them having full, or near full, brush tracks.

The more accurate way to describe the brushes is that the face doesn't have a well-defined curvature 90 degrees to the comm.

They appear to be more like a flat block.

I typically break them in at 5v, dry, for approximately 15 minutes.
 
Then I make passes on the strip at 9v, 9.5v, 10v, etc., etc., until I get to 16.4v.
 
On the ones I've tested in road race cars, after the 15 minute dry break in, I just run them on the track, at whatever power that particular class runs o., in my case 13.6v for the CR102, in a Retro car on the King.
 
I also do the same for the faster CR104 and CR105 motors, in wing cars, of course, again on the KIng.
 
Bottom line, I haven't seen any need for any kind of wet break-in, but I'm sure racers will try everything.
 
20210407_200334.jpg
 
Here's an endbell with about 5 seconds of running on it, by me, and whatever it was run at the factory.
 
20210407_203238.jpg
 
Here's a complete motor, again, with about 5 seconds of running on it, by me, and whatever it was run at the factory.
 
20210407_203446.jpg
 
Here's that same motor after about 17 minutes at 5v.

Mike Swiss
 
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#6 MSwiss

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 09:25 PM

20210407_212210.jpg
 
Here's a better pic, taken in a different part of the raceway, of the brush track after 17 minutes of dry break-in at 5 volts.
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Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#7 DOCinCanton

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 09:29 PM

Do not break this motor in water. Just 20 seconds in water at 3.5v wipes out the brushes. Dry break in only as Mike describes.
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#8 Paul5097

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 05:09 PM

I bought one, put it into a Retro Can Am and broke it in on the track. After about 50 laps, I was running lap times as fast as my best Retro Hawk. It has good brakes even when it is hot.


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#9 snolde

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 09:16 PM

Received the two CR2 motors today that I had ordered and did the motor break in.

Ran both for 10 minutes at 5 volts, brushes are seated on both.

Some observations:

The CR2 weighs 1.1 grams more than a long shaft RH, not a bad thing just an observation.

No signs at all of the two speed problem that plagued the RH.

I took both motors up two 10 volts for the two speed test and to here the whine of each motor for an RPM consistency check. (All I have to check the RPM is my ears)

One motor sounded slightly faster than the other but not by much.

I'll say that good consistency between the two exists.

I also put a good running RH motor on the supply at the same 10 volts and was quite bit faster. I was expecting this because the CR2 is a torquer, like a big block V8 vs a rice burner.

 

One thing I i noticed was that the CR2 does get fairly warm with no load on it, not a bad thing if it can stand the heat.

 

Over all I give the CR2 a thumbs up as an alternate to the RH.  :good:  

Should have some on track time this weekend for further evaluation.


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#10 MSwiss

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 10:20 PM

One thing I i noticed was that the CR2 does get fairly warm with no load on it, not a bad thing if it can stand the heat.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

As far as motor getting warmer on the power supply, I'm 98% sure that's a product of the hard Neo mags.

 

I've noticed other hard Neo mag motors suggest no-break in on the power supply.

 

I was aware of that when I first started testing my motors.

 

I was pleased when I discovered I could run them on the power supply, with a very tolerable amount of heat.

 

PS  - I wouldn't be surprised if the motor would actually run cooler, no loaded on the power supply, at a slightly higher voltage, to provide a bit more fan effect.
 


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#11 Noose

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 07:10 AM

They run much cooler in a car on the track.


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#12 bbr

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 01:13 PM

Breaking in a motor w hard neo magnets at low voltage is like stalling the motor. It will put heat in the arm.
That use to happen with HO motors with hard neos.
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#13 tonyp

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 01:30 PM

It needs more voltage to overcome the magnetic field.


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#14 snolde

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 06:54 PM

Thanks for the response,

What voltage would you use for dry break in?


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#15 MSwiss

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 07:26 PM

I haven't had time to experiment with different voltages, so I would use 5V, and not worry about the little bit of heat, or just break the motor in on the track.


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Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#16 zipper

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 05:41 AM

Listen to the sound, it should be running freely.


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#17 John Luongo

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 06:16 AM

sounds like an interesting motor. i would expect an amp draw change when broken in. an oscilloscope would be useful. best regards



#18 MSwiss

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 11:02 AM

Listen to the sound, it should be running freely.

I tried it earlier.
 
The motor sounds fine at 5V, but a little "happier" at 6V.
 
I broke one in at 6V for approx. 18 minutes.
 
Whenever I checked on it, I could hold the sides of the can tightly, for as long, as I wanted.
 
It didn't seem to change.
 
I checked the temp with a laser thermometer, a drag racer had with him.
 
The highest reading I could get, with it running, was 97.2 degrees Fahrenheit.
 
After I took it off the supply, it was 92.5 degrees.
 
edit-after letting it cool for about 1/2 hour, I tried it at 5V.
 
Running, max temp was 91.5.
 
Checking it immediately after turning it off, I got 93.0.
 
I wouldn't consider the device I used as a real precision instrument.
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Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#19 snolde

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 07:22 PM

My testing results for the CR2 vs HR motors.

 

This is the test car...

A new build for F1

4 rails per side of .047

101 grams.

Track is Atlanta Slot Car Raceway 165 Foot Hill Climb

 

IMG_2016.JPG

 

Tested with the RH motor fully broke in, what I will call a good RH motor.

Car geared 9-27

The track was loose so best lap was a 5.6 on yellow lane.

I ran it about 20 laps.

Made adjustments to the front ride height and Difalco controller to get the car to handle as best as i could with the track conditions.

 

Then put the CR2 motor in the car geared at 10-27.

Same chassis set up.

Did some laps to adjust the Difalco controller and did a best lap on the same lane of 5.5.

So a tenth quicker with the CR2.

 

I continued to test on other lanes with the CR2 and found the car to have the same top speed as the RH but the car is quicker to accelerate off the corner. Noticeably quicker.

Also with the better brakes faster into the corner.

More practice with the CR2 will most likely yield faster lap times because the car drives differently.

Also you guys were right about the motor running cooler on track as opposed to power supply breakin.


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Scott Nolde

#20 HarV Wallbanger III

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 08:35 PM

Hey Mike I would be curious if you can get the temp gun again shoot the center of the stack plates on the arm to see what temp it reads also after break in .


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#21 MSwiss

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 08:52 PM

I did.

I tried every part of the motor,quite a few times, obviously more times with the motor running.

With the motor stopped, the highest # I could get was the 93.0.

I don't remember if it was the can or the stack.

The highest number I saw was 97.2.

I don't remember if it was the can or stack.

The

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#22 MSwiss

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 09:16 PM

My testing results for the CR2 vs HR motors.
 
This is the test car...
A new build for F1
4 rails per side of .047
101 grams.
Track is Atlanta Slot Car Raceway 165 Foot Hill Climb
 
attachicon.gifIMG_2016.JPG
 
Tested with the RH motor fully broke in, what I will call a good RH motor.
Car geared 9-27
The track was loose so best lap was a 5.6 on yellow lane.
I ran it about 20 laps.
Made adjustments to the front ride height and Difalco controller to get the car to handle as best as i could with the track conditions.
 
Then put the CR2 motor in the car geared at 10-27.
Same chassis set up.
Did some laps to adjust the Difalco controller and did a best lap on the same lane of 5.5.
So a tenth quicker with the CR2.
 
I continued to test on other lanes with the CR2 and found the car to have the same top speed as the RH but the car is quicker to accelerate off the corner. Noticeably quicker.
Also with the better brakes faster into the corner.
More practice with the CR2 will most likely yield faster lap times because the car drives differently.
Also you guys were right about the motor running cooler on track as opposed to power supply breakin.

I think your findings pretty much coincide with everyone else's.

As far as the motor's torque, below is what it was ordered for, back in early November.

20210410_211902.jpg

20210410_211930.jpg

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#23 Tim Neja

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 09:59 PM

Scott---why run it with a different gear ratio?  It would have been interesting to see how it stacked up against the RH with the same conditions.

T


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#24 Robert BG

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 09:42 AM

I have a old computer heatsink that I used to use for breaking motors in on a power supply. I found it kept temps in check quite well. All I did was drill a few holes for the hole in the can and I used a piano wire spring to hold the motor in place. The heat sink came with a fan but there was no real difference with it on or off so I scrapped it.

 

If heat is a concern I recommend giving it a shot


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#25 snolde

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 10:24 AM

Tim

I did not even think of doing that because the max RPM of the RH is way higher than the CR2.

Also that 10-27 gearing was recommended by Mike in another thread here on Slot Blog.

My guess is that it would have been much slower down the long straight. 


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Scott Nolde





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