19 replies to this topic

[PCH Parts Express]

What if a raceway set their track at 8 volts? Then offered only Hawk 7 flexi cars to use? This way the off the street newbie would find the car easy to use. May not fall off too many times. A track with newbies and few fall offs.

 

Would that be popular? 

[Michael Jr.]

Mike Swiss has posted the advantages of his variable voltage P/S that he uses. That would give a track the flexibility to be used with low or standard voltage. It's on my TODO list but I have a few other things to take care of first.

[MattD]

Speed kills, close racing lap after lap makes for fun.

[Dave Crevie]

Mike Swiss has posted the advantages of his variable voltage P/S that he uses. That would give a track the flexibility to be used with low or standard voltage.   first.

 

His system is the nuts! We race hardbodies and wings on his King, and he has two different power levels for both. The hardbody lap times are closer between cars, and the advantage of a "best-of-the-bunch" motor pretty much goes away. When someone walks in to just give it a try, Mike sets the voltage to a level where the car just gets through the toughest turn flat out, then sneaks it up after the person starts to get the hang of it. I see customers leaving much happier than they would be if the car was falling off all the time. Some even come back for more fun. He has two levels of power on the flat track as well. 

[mreibman]

One of the tracks at our local raceway has something wired up that seems to work.

each panel has 2 posts for the white wire (track power).

 

let's call them "fast" and "slow"

 

the "fast" is full power - so that's about 13.5 volts from the P/S.

 

The "slow" runs through some circuitry that has a potentiometer in there to adjust track voltage. So you turn the whole track down a ways to get a group going, or allow for more inexperienced racers... you put everyone on the slow post, and let the adults know that the other post is faster. If a regular goes on this track, they know the drill already.... Although most of us who are regulars use the slow post anyway because it's easier to drive with no wrecks.

 

I have theorized, but not yet assembled a diode choke to use on other tracks to move the power down, but using a diode choke (let's say without a switch, just providing some other connection points) would achieve this same result. I have built one with toroids, but that's been disassembled as it was a prototype.

 

The real key here would be to get rental controllers available that had some simple way to do this (a 2-4 position switch, perhaps - and the option to put that INSIDE the handle where only the track employees/owner can easily adjust it.

 

Think outside the box, perhaps.

[Isaac S.]

Keep it simple-12V.

 

The only racing that should be done on variable voltage is club tracks, home tracks and drag strips. 

[Bill from NH]

Not many commercial tracks currently run 12.0 V.

[Pablo]

At 8V, you won't be selling many motors over the counter 

[Tim Neja]

Mike Swiss has proven his system works!  No point in arguing that --  it's simple and affective, and WILL help newbies to become interested perhaps in taking the next step of becoming regular racers!! It's a HUGE step in time and $$ to be a racer.  Successfully negotiating the track in the beginning is a key to making that seem attainable and enjoyable.  Good on you Mr Swiss!

[gotboostedvr6]

If you geared a hawk motor with a large pinion to take advantage of 8v you would have no brakes.

[MSwiss]

It was a ton of work, but the adjustable power has worked out even better than I hoped.

http://slotblog.net/...of-power/page-1

Probably mentioned in the above thread, being able to even out the rental cars for competitive, squabbling brothers, has been great.

Also probably mentioned, but I've been pleased with the miniscule amount of abuse of it, by the customers.

I've had one young kid adjust it on his own, and maybe 2-3 cases of adults getting carried away, thinking they are relatives of Mike Steube.

They usually get in about a quarter lap until I get "notified" by the rattling of the Deadman, soft lexan walls.

I don't think we've ever weekly raced on the adjustable power.

It would keep me on my toes, between heats, but in theory I could use it to handicap the cars.

[Lowflyer]

We run 8.6v at for rental cars, if the renters are hopeless we turn  it further Down. Works great.

[Modelville Guy]

First, we are racing cars that are suposed to be 12 volts but many tracks are running much higher than that to get the speed up.
Second, being able to lower the voltage for the crowd on the track is priceless.
Third, if you play around you might fine a half of a volt makes a big difference and I have even seen where a tenth or two changes the track from very hard to drive to very drivable.
 
One of my tracks is set at 10.8 volts, mostly because at 12 volts you can not drive it.
 
As far as selling less motors go, I would rather sell you twice as much track time than parts sales. You have to remember for everything I sell I have to pay to replace it. Time just keep coming.

[MSwiss]

One of my tracks is set at 10.8 volts, mostly because at 12 volts you can not drive it.

Great post by Richard.

My exact thinking why I wired my tight flat track with small gauge wire and have a minimum of taps.

Or in the case of the speedy King, where I never have added taps on Red and White, in the middle of the Donut.

[MG Brown]

What if a raceway set their track at 8 volts? Then offered only Hawk 7 flexi cars to use? This way the off the street newbie would find the car easy to use. May not fall off too many times. A track with newbies and few fall offs.

 

Would that be popular? 

 

Speed limited rental cars are only appealing to some individuals. Others will hold the trigger down without coming off and complain "Haven't you got anything FASTER?"

[PCH Parts Express]

 

Speed limited rental cars are only appealing to some individuals. Others will hold the trigger down without coming off and complain "Haven't you got anything FASTER?"

 

Agreed. 

[Pablo]

And the answer should be "you can go as fast as you want in this hobby" then show them your line of G7 parts and controllers. Hey if they want to jump from a rental to open class, who are you to stop them? LOL

 

Scott, I know you are a great salesman   

[Ramcatlarry]

Power:  "12VDC " is the general term for automotive battery power.  Actually,  A car/truck battery puts out 13.xVDC by itself.  The battery charger usually can kick 14.4VDC to shock the chemical reaction to charge a battery.  A charger of that sort is proven to be very harmful for small DC electric motors.  Since the current 'state of the art' is 'server power supplies' that are super clean from AC ripple and other harmful things, motors are rarely letting out the smoke trails of the 1980s and 1990s. Make 13.5VDC the International STANDARD for track power for racing.  All motorsports have fuel standards in their racing rules.

 

Changing the track voltage does work very well as Mike has pointed out, BUT you need to be able to wire the track for the dual system and monitor who is using what at the time.  ANOTHER OPTION is to use rental cars that are designed to drive slower either by gear ratio or lower RPM motors.  Most standard motors range from 40 - 60,000 RPM...these need to be geared with a very small pinion and large axle gear OR you can install any of the lower RPM motors on the market that range from 12K, 18K, 25K, or 35K.  

 

When I started my raceway in the 1990s, I had the normal set of 36D powered Whisperjets....slow tanks that beat my track and regularly destroyed their bodies. The 16D versions were worse since they went faster.  I tried a resistor in the cars and diodes in the track (Gray 4th post) or in the controllers. The ultimate goal was to slow the rental cars down.......

[pn6]

The obvious goal here is to get more people into the hobby AND to have fun. Track owners having slow rentals is the right way to go for starters. Let the newbie know that you have faster rental cars for them when they've mastered the "mild" cars and when they are ready the sale counter is always open where they can buy some crazy stuff!

 

For me, starting in the mid 60's and only running over the counter kits or RTR's the key wasn't outright speed but keeping it in the lane through the turns. Running a Monogram Chaparral on kit tires was a real challenge! Today after playing with my old stuff recently I've found my most fun car is a Russkit Spyder chassis with a 60's formula body on it. The motor is a Parma home set motor. I'm about 2 seconds a lap slower than the fast Hardbody cars. This car is a blast for me because I can really push it and actually see it go down the straights and through the corners. It's fast enough that it will come off in the turns so I can't just pin it every where. Fun way to play.

 

Back in the day when Dad was building HO tracks in the garage he would set up the the controls so the AFX controllers we used would go through those Aurora Steering wheel reostats then to the track. We would dial the reostats down to a slower speed and match each other on the 18' long back straight so it was more driver than car. Our races were "Lappers"! We'd go until one of us lapped the other! Some of the best racing I've done.....All fun!

[Bill Seitz]

The beauty of using a variable voltage power supply is that you can adjust the voltage as necessary to get the speed you prefer. I have that option on my home track. Variable supplies can be a lot more expensive, but my Internet searches have turned up reasonably priced ones that I think are probably industrial surplus. I am familiar with at least one raceway that keeps the voltage around 12.6 to keep the car speed under control. Same will work by adjusting the gear ratio appropriately, or I've even seen a resistor wired in series with the motor on the rental car chassis to limit the speed. One past raceway I visited had arranged the rental controllers so the throttle stroke was limited to the lower speed end of the normal stroke. Maybe an easier solution is to use a slower motor than the Hawk 7.