171 replies to this topic

[Dan Ebert]

I had a Stocker not count at Port Jeff.  But I found it was heavy on the fronts and the lane I wasn't counting in.  I had flatted a braid and it burnt.  Fixed it after that heat and I was fine the rest of the race. 

At our home track we had a counting issue.  We traced it back to only cars that racers were super gluing their braid to the guide.  We took that car and changed braid counted fine after that.  We asked the racers that were having counting issues if they were doing that.   And all the racers having problems were gluing braid to the guide.  That is a old wing racer trick to keep braid from twisting in wrecks. 

[Eddie Fleming]

ASCR had the monthly Retro race on the flattish hill-climb Saturday. Most ran the CR motor and were very happy with it. Gearing was a mix of 10T&11T with people doing well with each. Probably more 11s than 10s in Can-Am and more 10s in Stock car. 

 

I don't think anyone was not counting laps but on restarts we were getting invalid time stoppages if anyone was close to the lap counter for the start after a track call. I Don't know what is up with that?

[Pablo]

I haven't raced IRRA® in a while so I needed to learn the CR-102 to go racin' again. I bought four of them for my old fleet. Your inputs helped me know exactly what I want to do. First one, right out of the bag, oiled it, spun it up. Revolved instantly at first click of power. (red dot is pos, like Mike S. said). Sounds real happy and smooth. Fed it 5 volts. Amp draw 0.45

 

 

I've broken in a lot of motors in my time. This is the first one I've ever seen where amp draw stayed absolutely buried at the same figure for 15 minutes. Not even a tenth of an amp change. I don't know what that tells you. But it tells me there isn't any "break in" happening, because it doesn't need any.

 

Break in is a process used to correct imperfections in the manufacturing process. If a motor is built to precise standards it doesn't really need TLC. Motorcycle race engines, for example, at the top levels, don't need breaking in. They run the pee out of them at the get-go. 

 

That's my theory anyway. I know a happy slot car motor when I see one. The first one I pulled out of the bag is dead smooth, dead cool, and is the quietest of it's type I've ever experienced. Isn't this the goal of retro, consistent power and no need to buy 30 motors to get a good one? 

 

No wonder people are gearing them to the moon LOL I give it        

[Pablo]

Motor #2 break in, at 5 volts amp draw was buried at .50 and stayed that way for 15 minutes. Dead cool, dead steady. I'm seeing a pattern here .....  

[snolde]

wait until you get one on the track, you will like it even more!

Loads of torque, GREAT acceleration off the corners and they have good brakes.

I usually gear mine 10/27 for the 165ft hill climb at Atlanta, seems about the right gearing for that track.

The motors are consistent in performance from one motor to the next.

Just my 2 cents worth.  

[crazyphysicsteacher]

Motor #2 break in, at 5 volts amp draw was buried at .50 and stayed that way for 15 minutes. Dead cool, dead steady. I'm seeing a pattern here .....  

Make sure to put laps on the motor before racing. Make the easy breakin laps.
I 3d printed a fan i now put on the end of my motors when i break them in. It doubles the current draw on these motors and lets me do a 5 min breaking that needs a lot less track time to finish.

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[Tim Neja]

I"ve got 250+ laps on one of mine now and it STILL won't count on our old lap counter system at Foster's!!  Too bad--I'd love to use them to race with--but haven't found a solution to this.  It's the ONLY motor I have that shows this.  And both of the 102's have the same problem in several different chassis?  Both retro style and flexi. 

[Pablo]

If it won't count your laps then how do you know it's "250 + laps"? Just teasing you, Tim 

[MSwiss]

I"ve got 250+ laps on one of mine now and it STILL won't count on our old lap counter system at Foster's!!  Too bad--I'd love to use them to race with--but haven't found a solution to this.  It's the ONLY motor I have that shows this.  And both of the 102's have the same problem in several different chassis?  Both retro style and flexi.

Yes, you race with a lap counter that had trouble with low back EMF motors.

If you put a home set car on that track, it would most likely not count, either.

You can try dropping the back of the car in water for a second or two, to break in the brushes a little more.

Just be real careful.

These brushes react to liquid break in, different than others.

[Tim Neja]

Yes, you race with a lap counter that had trouble with low back EMF motors.

If you put a home set car on that track, it would most likely not count, either.

You can try dropping the back of the car in water for a second or two, to break in the brushes a little more.

Just be real careful.

These brushes react to liquid break in, different than others.

I found as long as I was either "off throttle" or not at FULL throttle--they would count!!  Of course--sacrificing a tenth or so every lap is NOT acceptable for racing!   And I'd have to time the start finish every time--it's 3/4 of the way down the main straight!  Not so easy to do every lap! 

 

BTW---average 4 second laps--10 minutes of run time = 150 laps!!!   

[MSwiss]

On my King, a few will count right away, but most need to be fully broken in.

I'm not sure if 250 laps is enough.

[Eddie Fleming]

I found as long as I was either "off throttle" or not at FULL throttle--they would count!!  Of course--sacrificing a tenth or so every lap is NOT acceptable for racing!   And I'd have to time the start finish every time--it's 3/4 of the way down the main straight!  Not so easy to do every lap! 

 

BTW---average 4 second laps--10 minutes of run time = 150 laps!!!   

I am just curious. How long is the dead strip on that track?

[Rotorranch]

I was wondering the same thing, Eddie.

[Noose]

I think there is a track in FL having the same problem and they had to put a strip of metal type tape on the underside of the frame.


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[Jay Guard]

Noose:

The track that us GRRR boys have to put the metal tape on the front bottom of our chassis is Greg Walker's in Daytona.  However his track uses an optical type pickup system so it is not like the back EMF type systems.

 

Mike:

Are you saying that the CR102 won't reliably count until fully broken in?!  When I first ran my CR102's I don't think I had anywhere near that many laps but I do think they were pretty much fully broken in, I didn't have any counting problems.  Don't get me wrong, I love this motor, but it seems like this could be a huge problem, especially for hand-out motor races.

[MSwiss]

Jay,
I think you missed a few posts in this thread.

Tim races at Foster's, which has an old lap counting system that is obviously sensitive to motors with low back EMF.

IIRC, mine on the King is not the same as the one at Foster's.

It's an old BSRT system made for HO cars, where they typically used a light bar.

One Sano, when I used low timed TSR motors for the handouts, they didn't count until they got 50 or so laps on them.

One never counted reliably, and I had to hand count that racer's laps every heat.

Also, my King doesn't count low RPM 1/32 plastic car motors, at all.

My Flat track, with an old SRT system, counts all motors.

I haven't heard of any issues with other raceways.

IOW, you don't need to worry about the handouts at the Fall Brawl.

[Jay Guard]

Mike: Good to hear, thanks for the quick response.

[MSwiss]

Jay,
What's weird is while Foster's and my track are low timing related, there was an USRA Nats, around 2012 or 2013 where they had Lapmaster when it was fairly new.

They had never had an issue until they got to the I15 race.

They had never raced them before the Nats.

When a few of the racers started to warm up with their super hi-time arms, they discovered that they didn't count.

They had to delay the race until the next day while they lengthened the dead strip.

[Tim Neja]

Don't get me wrong--I LOVE the performance of these motors.  I'm just hoping we can find  a SIMPLE way to get them to count reliably on these old systems.  

 

I don't know why it put my response in there---but the motor's performance is really good.  I haven't gone down to Piranha yet to see what it does there.  They are not using them at this time.  And I'm headed out to Bakersfield in the next few weeks -  I'll see how they perform there.

[MSwiss]

It's nice to see Jerry back racing.

While it's terrific he set 3 new records in Stock Car, at Fast Tracks, on Saturday, I'm more excited he did it with a motor he bought off the wall, the morning of the race.

[Tim Neja]

OKAY---Update on Mike's CR102 motor at Foster's.  I was able to put a LOT more laps on the car in practice. I'd estimate I've got close to 500 laps on the motor.  I LOVE the smooth performance and great braking it has!!

 

AND---I was able to run it in our last F-1 race---and IT COUNTED EVERY LAP!!  After many, many break in laps--the times it's running didn't change--but NOW it's counting!!  I'll try a water break in on my other CR102 I've been saving and see if it will count with the better break-in.  

FYI Mike

[MSwiss]

Glad to hear it's finally counting for you.

On my King track, a few motors counted right away.

But more needed quite a few laps.

And yes, the motor seems to run at full speed before full break in.

But be careful with water break-in.

For a motor that needs a ton of laps, dry, to fully break-in, guys have said the brushes go down quickly with wet break-in.

IOW, check every few seconds.