14 replies to this topic

[mark1]

What is a good way to determine the breakout number for oval and road race? Average the qualifying times? TQ time?

[Chad M.]

Personally, I would average the "In Race Lap Times"... They are a more realistic time... Qualifying is almost always faster...

[MattD]

Why not have a minimum lap time that applies to all cars? A good driver (maybe owner) tests each car on one lane (always the same lane) and it must not run faster than the agreed on lap time. Once you do that all cars are geared and weighted to run the same time, you throw the breakout stuff out the window and just race balls out and not be blipping controllers or slowing down. Slowing down in a race!

 

Every race comes down to driving ability, not who is best at slowing down or watching the lap time readout. 

[John Streisguth]

From my one and only experience with breakout racing, I would say the breakout time should be what the better racers can do if they are making good race laps, plus a tenth or two.  If you have a big variation in peoples times (which was the case in the race I attended), an "average" would cause half the field to break out unless they drove ridiculously slow.  It would not make for very good racing.  You still need incentive for the slower/newer people to get better, but also give them a chance for a good finish placement if they are consistent, even at a few tenths off the breakout time (i.e. learning to drive within what the car and driver are capable of).

 

This is at a commercial raceway, so a club situation may be different

[Bill from NH]

I only saw a "breakout" time used so a car which de-slotted to another slot didn't double-count on that other slot. I never saw it used as a way to penalize you for going too fast by not counting but loosing those fast laps. I know there were raceways that did use it that way to penalize fast racers, but they weren't in New England.

[MSwiss]

I've never fully grasped breakout racing.

 

It seems if you make the times where the slower racers can achieve them, it would really stifle the more experienced.

 

If you have the breakout time that only the better racers can achieve times close to it, then I don't know how it's any different than a normal race.

 

I guess my post just echo's John Streisguth's earlier post.

 

When I have seen it, it's typically used with slower cars.

 

Maybe Michael Cannon / Upstate can explain it better as he seems to run races with it and has success with it.

[Gil Aubin]

I only saw a "breakout" time used so a car which de-slotted to another slot didn't double-count on that other slot. I never saw it used as a way to penalize you for going too fast by not counting but loosing those fast laps. I know there were raceways that did use it that way to penalize fast racers, but they weren't in New England.

 

Modelville used to use this method on occasion. I tried it once, I am glad that some people like it but it's not for me. Eight cars going around in formation, Dick P using a choke on his Group 10, the lap counter making a loud beep each time someone broke out.

 

The guys who did it on a regular basis loved it. Just another case of different strokes for different folks.

[MSwiss]

I never understood bracket/breakout racing in drag racing until I finished my drag strip and started holding races.

 

IMO, it makes more sense with drag racing because it doesn't eliminate the most important skill.

 

Cutting a good light.

 

Back to road racing.

 

I would think a handicap system, like bowling or golf, would be better, because that rewards the person for over-achieving.

[John Streisguth]

Of course, more experienced racers like Dick P can figure out how to "game" the system.  What's referred to as "clubbing baby seals".  The trick really seems to be about finding the balance.  At the raceway I ran this race at, they give away a tee-shirt to anyone who does a "perfect lap", which is .001 seconds slower than the break out time.  Some of the faster guys were breaking out about half the laps, just trying to achieve that perfect time  LOL.  They didn't have anything to prove beating the back-markers.  It's not a perfect system, but it seems to work for this raceway as they average 20 people on a Wednesday night to race womps.  For people who have the mind-set that winning is everything, you may be better off having beginner and expert classes, and just keep then separated. At this raceway, everyone was just there for fun.

[John Luongo]

My fastest lap times during a race were always from a rider who, uncontrollably, went faster than I was driving.

[MattD]

Locally it's the only organized racing. If somebody goes too fast they lose a lap. All cars are capable of times faster than the breakout. The breakout runs from 9-10 seconds on a King with hardbodies. Most any of the cars can run in the 8s with just a gear change. The guys  also have to learn how many times to hit the brakes for the different lanes. They want cars that coast the best when they have track calls. Guys watch the lap times and practice how much to slow down for each lane to be sure they are going slow enough.

 

All that sounds like anything but racing, but it is all that is available locally.    

[mark1]

Thanks everyone, for the comments! This breakout stuff is new to me. Friday night oval. I will say that it's had a positive effect overall. A different  winner  every race. More racers feel they have a chance. With the old race program, one guy always won. It didn't bother me, but a lot of guys quit racing because of that.

[old & gray]

I ran in a breakout series on the Oval in East Haven, CT in the 1990's. The regular race had become a serious technical battle so the owner started a second series with a breakout time that was reasonable for a flexy chassis, S16D, and a stock car body. Most guys would run cars slower than the breakout, I tuned my car to just hit breakout on the inner lane. It was fun for a while but eventually people started building cars that could breakout on the outside lane and just sandbag the other seven lanes.

 

I dropped out for two reasons; one we weren't racing anymore, it was cruising and try to run just over the breakout. Secondly it was effecting my other racing, I was not running to get the most out of my car and was losing the ability to drive on the edge.

[NSwanberg]

This Sunday's Sportsmen race at Downriver Speedway turned into the Breakoutpalooza as breakout fever descended on JB and Ron. 83 year old Billy G. wins by a lap over Professor Motor's own Randy Bussinger. Breakout racing is much more fun than I thought it would be. There is a lot of strategy that goes into it. Nerfing is part of the fun and we always offer up the Downriver apology. (I'm sorry. So sorry.) It helps if you are savvy enough to look at your lap times during the race.

 

I guess we set the breakout by what we found the average 4 inch JK Cheetah 21 Hawk 7 geared 10-37 with .765 tires and a GTP body would turn right out of the box and onto the track. 4.500  seconds seems to be just about right. A good car is going to breakout on every lane. We seem to be having different winners and that is good for any program. Some guys just like to run different bodies with the intent of slowing the car down so they can feel like they are racing flat out.  The JK semi-truck seems to do the trick, although JB's 32 Ford pickup got faster as the race went on.  We had 9 entries on a rare cloudless 85 degree Michigan summer day. Not bad. 9  racers in 13 heats of 3 minutes. I think fun was had by all.

 

As Mark indicated we are doing breakout on the Friday NASCAR program, however, it is a bit tricky as the oval track gets slower as you move up the track. JB set it at 2.000 seconds and that seems to be  about right. A good car will break out on black and purple. I am like a Mazda engineer. I never give up on anything. The one car I have for the series has a motor that gets as fast as anybody else after 10 or so continuous laps but then resets itself to slow after a track call. I guess it is a two speeder. Good thing we never have any track calls in our NSACAR races. (NOT)

[Thom]

It might work with a run what you brung crowd. Heat #1 2-4 sec., heat #2 4-6 sec., heat #3 6 and up sec., choose your heat to enter and try not to breakout. Breakout racing with a Trackmate system and the sound turned up is wild, “shot guns” going off all the time!