41 replies to this topic

[rmjlmartin]

Hi, I'm curious what people who race Womps regularly would recommend for a sturdy Womp chassis.

 

I'm getting back into slot cars with my two sons after a 20+ year absence, and we've been mostly racing Flexis, but I have nostalgic memories of racing Womps as a teenager, and the local track is running Womp races that don't get a lot of people, so I'd like to branch into that some as well.

 

I still have my old Parma and Champion Womps that I had as a teenager, and I've played with them a little, but when I have, it seems that they need to be straightened about every other time they hit anything, which people tell me is somewhat just the nature of Womps. I built myself a Womp out of the Mid America spring steel Hammer chassis, and it runs very well, but we run mostly AWRA Womp rules here, and that chassis isn't legal for the Legends or Sportsman. That isn't a problem for just the local races here, but there will be an AWRA event here in a few months, which I'm considering running in.

 

I'd also like to set up a couple more Womps for my boys to run, so I'm thinking about what chassis to use. Is there one in particular that seems to be pretty tough, if not quite as tough as the Hammer? Having the motor screw holes at 9:00 and 3:00 for the modern minican motors would be great, too, since the AWRA rules don't allow drilling them in a chassis that doesn't already have them for the Legends and Sportsman classes.

 

Thanks in advance for your advice!

[John Streisguth]

Check the one made by American Adrenaline.  A few weeks ago I did my first womp race in about 10 years at the raceway (American Adrenaline Speedway in Randleman NC) that makes them, and they are definitely the most robust.  I saw one rider into the deadman, didn't tweak it a bit. So impressed I bought one, even though it may be months before I race it. It is legal for both of those classes

[rmjlmartin]

Thanks John, that sounds promising. Do you know where I can find them, or where I can find info about them? I don't see much of anything right off.

[NSwanberg]

Overheard at Downriver, "Why am I racing a Womp I paid $11.99 for 30 years ago with a $350.00 controller?

[James Wendel]

Link to their facebook page:

 

https://www.facebook...enalinespeedway

[Bill from NH]

Here's a photo of the AA womp chassis from their FB page. It has both vertical & horizontal mounting screw holes, so mounting FK motors isn't a problem.

 

[rmjlmartin]

Lol, that's kind of ironic, isn't it? If I remember correctly, when I got my first Parma Womp back in the early 90s, it cost about the same as a new Parma controller. I think, if I remember correctly, they were about $20 each, at that point.

I only had the money for one of them myself, so I bought the car, and my Dad paid for a controller. I still have both, though sadly the original 16D motor in the car promptly burned out when I put them back on the track the end of last year.

I did see the American Adrenaline Facebook page, but I only saw a picture of the chassis captioned that they will pay anyone with a podium finish there using the chassis.

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with the stainless steel version of the R Geo Goblin? I ran across that one while trying to find the American Adrenaline one.

[John Streisguth]

The guys at the raceway were saying the Goblin is a fast chassis, but I think the AA chassis is thicker material, IIRC.  Take a look at the rear uprights in the photo Bill posted, you can see how robust it is.  

 

BTW, they are NOT open at 10 am like their facebook page says, they open around 6 pm.  Womp racing on Wednesday evenings.  If you call them to order a chassis, I suggest trying on Saturday, as long as it's not one of their "triple play weekends". 

[rmjlmartin]

So the AA chassis is only available direct from the raceway that makes them? That would explain why I can't seem to find them for sale anywhere. I did finally find some info in the comments for a picture on their Facebook page. I think it looks really cool, with the AA cut into the chassis, but it's a bit on the heavy side. It's supposed to weigh 56.4 grams, even with those huge cutouts, so it better be pretty sturdy.

 

In contrast, the Goblin SS is supposed to only weigh 34 grams, yet still be very strong. The owner of the local track tells me that it comes highly recommended.

 

Someone also sent me a PM recommending the LVJ-003. Does anyone have any thoughts on it? It's not on the AWRA list, though. The LVJ-002 is, but not the 003.

 

I also ran across on the AWRA rules page the Pro-Track 672 Pro Brass Womp chassis. It's not legal for the same classes that my Mid America Hammer isn't, so that won't do me any good there, but it does look like a very interesting tunable chassis that could be a lot of fun to play with. Does anyone have any experience with it? I don't seem to see it for sale anywhere, either.

[Bill from NH]

Buy one of both chassis to run against each other. See if one is any better for your needs than the other on your local track. I never had a home raceway in 50 yrs. of commercial racing that ran womps, except during the last six months of the last one that closed. I had always heard that the brass Riggen was the best handling. of the womps, but also, it was very good at bending. I bought a Thumper, brass & steel Parma womps, & built a chassis jig so I could scratchbuild a womp chassis.

[glueside]

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with the stainless steel version of the R Geo Goblin?

I have used the R Geo Goblin all of last year to win our series, with wins at every race.  The chassis took some huge crashes and it kept running and running.  You can't go wrong with it.

[Troy Beeler]

I have raced Womps quite a bit in the past two years. And I have tried I believe every chassis available. Many I never even raced. Just gave a try! The only ones worth messing with are the Mid American Hammer. And the R-geo SS Goblin 

[rmjlmartin]

Thanks, all of you, I appreciate it.

 

Bill's suggestion is good one, and I was already thinking about it, since I need two cars anyway.

 

I messaged the AA Speedway, and they confirmed that their chassis is only available direct from them, for $25, if anyone is interested. (I assume there's shipping and tax on top of that, but check with them to be sure) They also told me that it's made out of stainless steel and actually weighs 65 grams, so for better or worse, it's almost twice the weight of the Goblin. (34 grams, according to the AWRA rules page)

 

Would I be correct that, for performance, lighter would be better? Especially if you're potentially adding weight to the inside to run on an oval? Or would the AA chassis be heavy enough that you wouldn't need to add any weight? I'm sorry if those are dumb questions. I'm a bit new on this stuff since I've been out of it for 20+ years (and wasn't that good at it back when I was a teenager), and most of my experience the last few months has been with Flexis running on a King.

 

I'll probably go a head and start with the Goblin SS, since they're in stock here locally, see how it does, and then decide whether to build another one or try an AA chassis, too, or something else entirely.

 

But please don't consider this a closed thread. I'd still welcome any thoughts or suggestions from all of you that are more experienced than me.

 

I'd also love to know more about that Pro-Track chassis, if anyone has tried it. It really intrigues me, since it looks like it could be set up to run standard 2 1/2" wide 1/32 scale bodies as well as 3 1/8" wide 1/24 scale bodies. I was involved in another thread on here a few months ago that included talk of the old Womp extenders to make a Womp chassis wider and running much hotter motors in them, which sounds like great fun to me!

[Bill from NH]

I'm seeing new H & R womp chassis (probably brass) selling on eBay for $15-$16. Anybody know anything about these? Their 1/24 hard body brass chassis work very well on smaller tight club/home tracks.

[John Streisguth]

Interesting that the AA chassis is so much heavier.  I couldn't find a spec on the s/s Goblin for chassis thickness, but the brass one is 055, same as the AA.  So I have to assume the s/s Goblin may be thinner material.  Another one of the reasons I went with the AA is that the track owner Carl threw one together just before the race, and had about enough time to just make sure it went around the track.  During the race he broke out multiple times, so that showed me it's a good handling chassis.  And I think if you plan on running something like a Hawk 7, the heavier, the better

 

Keep us posted how things progress!

[rmjlmartin]

Sure, I'll keep you updated, though It may not be but so regularly. Our normal weekly race thing is 4" Flexis and JK Indy cars. The Womps race on Sunday afternoons, and I'll be out of town two weekends in August, so we might not get to race them for a month or two. But I guess that will give me plenty of time to get the cars set up...

 

I picked up a Goblin SS this evening at the track, along with most of the parts to put it together. It seems sturdy enough at a first impression. I didn't try too hard, but I don't seem to be able to bend it by hand very easily, which is promising. It's .035 thick, and weighs 35.6 grams on my digital scale with oilites installed. So I guess I'll see how it runs after it's like put together. It kinda makes me want to pull my Mid America Hammer chassis apart and weigh it to see what it weighs...

 

Bill, do you mean the H&R Stinger chassis? The one that looks a lot like the old Champion Thumper? I've seen them, but not tried one. I think there are a couple on the wall for sale at the local track, but I don't know what most people are running, aside from the rentals at the track.

[John Streisguth]

I'm guessing from your location you race at Mach 1?

[Bill from NH]

Bill, do you mean the H&R Stinger chassis? The one that looks a lot like the old Champion Thumper? I've seen them, but not tried one. I think there are a couple on the wall for sale at the local track, but I don't know what most people are running, aside from the rentals at the track.

Yes, I believe that's what I saw, I looked like a brass Thumper. It looks like everybody had their own womp chassis when word of Parma's demise got around. Mid America has a Stomp, but I know nothing about that one either.

[rmjlmartin]

Yes, we do Race at Mach 1 Raceway in Spout Spring, VA.

I'm curious John- you said that if I would be running something like a Hawk 7, heavier would be better. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but why do you say that? In my experience with Flexis, at least in general, lighter is better. Do the aerodynamics of a 1/24 scale body make that much more difference vs a 1/32 scale body?

Yes, there certainly are a lot of Womp chassis available now. I looked up most of the ones on the AWRA list in the last couple of weeks. The first Mid America Stomp is a 3D printed plastic chassis, but there's a new brass version out now. Caveman Bodeez makes a 3D printed one, too. That makes me curious, but for now I'll probably just stick to the sturdier metal ones that are at least supposed to be a lot better about bending than the old Parma ones.

[John Streisguth]

From my past experience, the short wheelbase makes for a handful with a fast motor.  Maybe some of these newer designs work better in that regard, but weight always makes a car easier to drive.  I've always gone for consistency over outright speed.  

And if you're running the tall, stiff bodies of some classes, I think that comes even more into play. Maybe not so much with bodies like the Kremer.

 

I asked about the raceway because I sold some retro bodies to someone who races there, and I have been making regular trips down Rt 29 through Lynchburg on the way to the Raleigh-Durham area, where I'll be moving to next year some time. Who knows, you may see me pop into Mach 1 at some point!

[rmjlmartin]

Actually, I'm the one who bought those retro bodies from you. You're welcome to come by. We'd be glad to have you. Or anyone else, too.

It's a great place to race. They have a regular 4" Flexi and JK Indy car schedule, as well as the weekly Womp class I mentioned that's not as well attended right now, and they also run 4" GTP Flexi, 4.5 Flexi, Group F wing cars, hard body cars and Modifieds, as well as a drag strip.

There's also an AWRA event and a Flexi-Palooza event that are scheduled for this Fall.

The only Womp class here that would be running anything like a Hawk 7 would be the Sportsman, and that would be with bodies similar to the Kremer, so I don't know if it will be an issue or not.

I noticed that my Mid America Hammer chassis and the Goblin, as well as some others, are designed with a bit of flex in them, so maybe that helps with the more powerful motors?

[rmjlmartin]

And you're definitely right about consistency vs outright speed. You lose ground every time you come off the track, and it hurts you in a hurry. I don't know how well I've done, but I've tried pretty hard to focus on that more than being the fastest guy out there.

[Brian Czeiner]

Yes, we do Race at Mach 1 Raceway in Spout Spring, VA.

I'm curious John- you said that if I would be running something like a Hawk 7, heavier would be better. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but why do you say that? In my experience with Flexis, at least in general, lighter is better. Do the aerodynamics of a 1/24 scale body make that much more difference vs a 1/32 scale body?

Yes, there certainly are a lot of Womp chassis available now. I looked up most of the ones on the AWRA list in the last couple of weeks. The first Mid America Stomp is a 3D printed plastic chassis, but there's a new brass version out now. Caveman Bodeez makes a 3D printed one, too. That makes me curious, but for now I'll probably just stick to the sturdier metal ones that are at least supposed to be a lot better about bending than the old Parma ones.

   Setting up a womp uses a different theory than a flexi. Most people add weight to a womp for better handling because the chassis doesn't absorb acceleration or direction changes the way a flexi does. Which may explain why newer womp chassis are made of thicker material essentially adding the weight for the lowest center of gravity possible. My 3d printed chassis does require weight and was an experiment in flexibility which many have embraced for racing. It is relatively durable though I don't recommend running it against metal chassis. Some laws of physics just can't be ignored. Chassis designs like the Riggen or Goblin also use the idea of chassis flexibility to gain better handling without being a multi piece chassis. 

  Body aerodynamics comes into play with womps as it would with any slot car. The AWRA has been very unforgiving with body approval so no single body becomes dominant. I have had several bodies rejected in the past and probably some in the future too. It is nice to see fields of cars with different bodies.

  Womp racing is a near even balance of car and driver. The highest rpm motor isn't always the best choice for a womp or track. Any additional weight needed to control the motor choice also needs to be controlled perhaps hurting handling. I have heard some racers are choosing the minibrute on certain tracks because the lower rpm is smoother to drive. Womps are by no means slow, but the driver plays a bigger part in winning a womp race. If you can control the rpm and weight, you have a good chance. The AWRA has come up with a formula using multiple combinations of parts permitting any racer to find a path to the winner circle.

[John Streisguth]

Great explanation Brian.  A lot of that is kind of what I thought was the case, but I don't have enough experience racing these little beasts to have first hand knowledge.  BTW, I'm assuming you meant that the highest RPM motor ISN'T always the best choice??

 

Jason: my apologies for not remembering it was you...I've had a lot on my mind getting our house in PA ready to sell, ahead of the move to NC.  I definitely will make a point of connecting with you at the raceway...one of these days!  LOL

[rmjlmartin]

Thanks Brian, that makes sense. Hopefully I can translate that into some good racing. You're making some nice bodies, by the way. All of the new Womp bodies I've picked up have been Caveman, and they've worked well.

 

No worries John. I recognized your name, but didn't know if you'd made the connection, too. But you've had a lot going on without remembering every random person you sold something to in the Racer swap shop. lol But come on by sometime, we'd be glad to have you. Do I remember correctly that you did a lot of retro racing? We don't have enough people to run a true scratch-built retro class at Mach 1 yet, but we're going to try running some retro bodies on JK Indy car chassis. I have on of the bodies I got from you set up already, and a number of other guys seem pretty interested, too, so we'll see how that goes.