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#1 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 11:23 AM

the other day I watched the Cleave Tech video on installing an interior. As usual Cleave is a brilliant creative detail oriented craftsman. BUT near the end he makes a statement that the interior is in the spirit of the rules. It is probably in the letter of the rules but in the spirit, I think not.

 

If that interior meets the rules then the rules need revision or elimination. Over the years I have raced lots of classes of cars some required interiors and some did not. I don't care which it is, but if they are required interiors should be better than that. I would much rather see cars run with no interior than with a glob of plastic stuck on flimsy paper flapping in the body. I did like the eyeballs on the figure he used. A good number of raceways are running box stock JK cars. an interior is not required and they look great. 

 

All this is nothing but aggravation on my part but I got it off my chest. 


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#2 Pablo

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 12:43 PM

Good thread, Eddie. I watched the video beginning to end and listened to his every word. I have feelings about it as well, and I don't disagree with your viewpoint. You make some good points for sure.

 

Everybody is going to have different opinions on this. But the facts are (according to James Cleave, and I've no reason to not believe it) he passed tech and he won an ISRA race using that method.

 

Once a car passes tech, it's legal to race - no going back unless you want to officially protest it after the race. Could turn into a debate. Regardless if you like the concept he presents or not, I learned a million things from that video.

 

Let your conscience be your guide  :)  One trick I've used is, establish a rapport with your tech inspector. Present your car to him before the event and ask him if it's legal. I've never been turned away from a request like that.

 

If James passed tech at an ISRA event with that type interior and won the race, that tells me something.  :buba:  


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#3 Big_John

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 12:52 PM

I watched the video too. 

 

I thought it was good info, I've never given a lot of thought to it, as I always just bought an interior off the wall back when I raced with classes requiring it.  I agree that his, while clever, meets the letter rather than the spirit.  I also have seen interiors, mounted low on the chassis, below window height,  that meet the letter but look dumb and really don't meet the spirit either. 

 

I really liked the eyes too! 

 

My local track does not require an interior for most of its classes, so it's a moot point for me. 


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#4 John Streisguth

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 01:32 PM

This is the ISRA 1/24 Eurosport rule:

 

All cars must contain a painted and 1/24 scale three-dimensional interior with the driver's helmet, shoulders, arms and steering wheel mounted in the original cockpit position. No portion of the chassis must be seen through the cockpit area when viewed from above. Body cutting must maintain every detail of the real car (i.e. lights, wheel position, etc.).

 
 
IMO, in no way, shape or form, does that interior meet the rule.  
 
IRRA takes it another step further:
 
All bodies must contain a painted (at least two colors), fully-molded, threedimensional interior comprising a driver (helmet, shoulders, and arms), a steering wheel, and cockpit representation

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#5 Bucky

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 02:55 PM

If that meets the rules I'd think a folded paper interior should as well. I might be in the minority, but I think highly detailed paper interiors look better than poorly painted molded interiors. I also like sticker fronts on flexis though.
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#6 Zippity

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 03:02 PM

Sadly, some rules were written and are maintained by silly little men :(

 

Having a fully molded interior does nothing for the handling of today's flimsy bodies - just like having to have front wheels on most cars.

 

Just my opinion :) 


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#7 Martin

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 04:49 PM

I watched the video too, and thought what a weak representation of an interior.

The only way that I can think of getting better looking cars on the race track is to award laps to good looking cars.

A concours with a race consequence.

IMO it would be good for the sport to have better looking cars. But that needs to be rewarded in some way or we just get this poor effort on the cars appearance.

Thoughts, Something along these lines.

                 3D fully painted interior (1 lap)

                 4 wheel inserts and other details? (1 lap)

                 Realistic numbers  and sponsor decals (1 lap)

Just an opinion and to be clear I do not race anymore. The cars in most classes today are just too crude, so I build cars that look like cars I would be proud to race.

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#8 James Wendel

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 05:13 PM

Some racers are modelers at heart and want their cars to be as realistic as possible.  Others don't care much about looks and just want to go fast and win races.

 

I think most of us try to hit a practical medium.

 

(Martin, I like your idea... not sure how it would fly in the real world.)


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#9 Martin

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 05:28 PM

You can't always get what you want...

Thanks James this says a lot,

Its just hard for me think that the interior shown here is not just embarrassing.

Imagine inviting a new friend to join the sport, and then show them this.


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#10 Pappy

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 05:40 PM

This is why I race 1/32 scale hardbody slot cars, they look like the real thing with beautiful interiors. Stick with the brands that have the removable motor pods where you can change them from inline to sidewinder or anglewinder. There is a lot you can do to them to make them faster. A 1/4 turn on a body screw or motor pod screw sometimes makes a hell of a difference. I like Slot It, NSR and Racer/Sideway. ScaleAuto also makes some really good cars with removable motor pods. You can use the same Slot It motor pods on Slot It and Racer/Sideways. I think some of the ScaleAuto cars will accept Slot It motor pods too. I don't care for Scalextric, SCX or Fly, you can't do much with them and they won't keep up with Slot It, NSR and Racer/Sideways.


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#11 Pappy

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 05:46 PM

 

IRRA takes it another step further:
 
All bodies must contain a painted (at least two colors), fully-molded, three dimensional interior comprising a driver (helmet, shoulders, and arms), a steering wheel, and cockpit representation

 

John, I think the IRRA needs to change this rule to at least four colors. One well known racer (I won't mention his name) had a driver in a Can Am car that was painted all white with a red dot on the top of his helmet. It met the rules but looked like crap.


Jim "Butch" Dunaway 
 
I don't always go the extra mile, but when I do it's because I missed my exit. 
All my life I've strived to keep from becoming a millionaire, so far I've succeeded. 
There are three kinds of people in the world, those that are good at math and those that aren't. 
No matter how big of a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into stupid people, believe me, I've tried.

2000 Jackasses


#12 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 06:48 PM

Good thread, Eddie. I watched the video beginning to end and listened to his every word. I have feelings about it as well, and I don't disagree with your viewpoint. You make some good points for sure.
 
Everybody is going to have different opinions on this. But the facts are (according to James Cleave, and I've no reason to not believe it) he passed tech and he won an ISRA race using that method.
 
Once a car passes tech, it's legal to race - no going back unless you want to officially protest it after the race. Could turn into a debate. Regardless if you like the concept he presents or not, I learned a million things from that video.
 
Let your conscience be your guide  :)  One trick I've used is, establish a rapport with your tech inspector. Present your car to him before the event and ask him if it's legal. I've never been turned away from a request like that.
 
If James passed tech at an ISRA event with that type interior and won the race, that tells me something.  :buba:  

ok

I respectfully disagree. IMO a car that has passed tech with an infraction is NOT given immunity for the rest of the race. It just means that myself or whoever was doing tech weren’t perfect. Who is? In ANY type of racing, or any kind of competition, it is the entrants responsibility to present a legal car or whatever.

That being said if the infraction is caught early enough and was not a performance enhancing item then I would consider letting that racer correct his car. On a case by case basis obviously.


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#13 Phil Smith

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 07:09 PM

I think if appearance was important to most commercial track racers, then more people would race hard bodies, in one form or another. As it is, at least at commercial tracks, they're raced very little.

 

Personally I don't think interiors in coupes are needed. There not that visible when the car is on the track.


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#14 BrettC

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 07:48 PM

In Australia that what we would call, taking the piss .
Nationally, we race PlaFit CanAm, where points are awarded on the cars detailing, which goes to your overall, which means, not enough points in concourse you cant win.
This is in a lexan bodied class, and some of the cars are truely beautiful, but all look the part.
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#15 Pablo

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 11:02 PM

The ultimate interior - grenade in one hand and MP5 machine pistol in the other. No hands needed on the wheel because of telemetry. Yes it's lots of weight up high but nobody dares to pass him

 

post-91-0-21276300-1519952340.jpg


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#16 gc4895

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Posted 19 December 2021 - 11:51 PM

Interiors are an anachronism from Slotcar racings model builders and craftsman past. They are silly and a useless distraction. Of course, there remain bastions of hardbody racers out there that can realize their expectations.

For the rest of racing, Ok, I can tape a carefully trimmed piece of paper in my body to satisfy this silly rule. Or, honestly, I would prefer to skip it. My view is that from when I started first racing back in 1966 I never for a moment thought of slot racing as a place for accurate modeling. Other than at the start line, race cars are not even generally visible in terms of body/interior details.

Racing is racing. Let's focus on what's important and that doesn't include an interior. As for those that enjoy accurate modeling of actual race cars, please gravitate to hardbody racing or the amazing detail offered by 1/32 manufacturers.

Heck, I always thought a wing car looked like the most amazing racing device ever invented. I was, and remain in awe.

Let's keep interiors simple and basically irrelevant. Because for racing, they are.
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#17 Pablo

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Posted 20 December 2021 - 12:17 AM

Well said, Mark. Me, I'm just like you - if I wanted to race real cars, I'd race real cars.

 

Different strokes for different folks. There are plenty of options in slot car racing  :D


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#18 NSwanberg

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Posted 20 December 2021 - 12:21 AM

I don't like interiors for retro or flexi, however, I do enjoy the requirement construct. How to engineer and build your way around the requirement within the rules. I adds t the building challenge.


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#19 Pappy

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Posted 20 December 2021 - 06:04 AM

As for those that enjoy accurate modeling of actual race cars, please gravitate to hardbody racing or the amazing detail offered by 1/32 manufacturers.

And I have.

 

I like slot "car" racing, not thingamajig racing. 

 

The "racing" is very competitive and no need to buy a dozen motors to get a good one because it's so easy to overpower the car. We sometimes actually turn the voltage down to go faster.


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Jim "Butch" Dunaway 
 
I don't always go the extra mile, but when I do it's because I missed my exit. 
All my life I've strived to keep from becoming a millionaire, so far I've succeeded. 
There are three kinds of people in the world, those that are good at math and those that aren't. 
No matter how big of a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into stupid people, believe me, I've tried.

2000 Jackasses


#20 Paul Lindewall

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Posted 20 December 2021 - 06:37 AM

I have my preferences on interiors, however, you do what the "local rules" say to do. If the track requires a 3D interior with helmet, arms, and steering wheel / roll cage, that's what you put in. If the rules state a piece of paper with a helmet head glued on is legal, fine. No interior? That's okay with me as well. 

 

If the rules state "All cars must contain a painted and 1/24 scale three-dimensional interior with the driver's helmet, shoulders, arms and steering wheel mounted in the original cockpit position." then there is no way the interior in question is legal, and if the tech inspector let it go, shame on him. 


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#21 JHMerriman

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Posted 20 December 2021 - 07:20 AM

Im confused as to why people are saying Cleaves interior isnt legal. The only hang up I can see is the drive not being in the original cockpit position. No where does it say anything about what material it has to be made of, or if it has to be a single piece of material, or even how many colors it has to be.
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#22 Bucky

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Posted 20 December 2021 - 07:45 AM

There's only one post that challenges the legality of his interior. I think the consensus is that most racers think it's legal, but either prefer a more realistic interior or none at all. This middle ground of cars with a non-scale "driver" glued to a piece of paper looks dumb.
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#23 John Streisguth

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Posted 20 December 2021 - 10:02 AM

John, I think the IRRA needs to change this rule to at least four colors. One well known racer (I won't mention his name) had a driver in a Can Am car that was painted all white with a red dot on the top of his helmet. It met the rules but looked like crap.

Yeah, I would like to see that too.  A lot of guys just spray the interior with the same color as the body, if it's a two color body then that's as far as they go. One color, they do what you mentioned.  There are enough nice pre-painted interiors out there and they last through multiple bodies...


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#24 Phil Smith

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Posted 20 December 2021 - 10:21 AM

A lot of guys just spray the interior with the same color as the body, if it's a two color body then that's as far as they go.

 

 

Doesn't that indicate that most guys don't care about the interior? So who would benefit from more stringent interior rules? Not most guys.


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#25 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 20 December 2021 - 10:37 AM

I’m not going to get into a long drawn out conversation here about “should a slotcar look like a real car”. I’m just going to tell you my observations after spending almost my entire life (65 years) on the other side of the sales counter. When I have customers looking into starting in the hobby and checking out the cars the “oohs and awhs” don’t come for the wing cars or slammed flexis (no matter the paint schemes) but for the well painted cars WITH scale looking detail including interiors. That is the “bait” to hook people into the hobby. If you show them a unrecognizable car that is so fast it will be months before they can master it ( hopefully before they get frustrated and quit ) then this hobby is truly dead. New blood is a must. And if you who don’t like interiors are as good as you think you are then putting one in your car should be no problem. And it might just help the overall problem of low numbers.


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