Jump to content




Photo

1984 Ray Kallio all-steel G27 chassis


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,059 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 25 December 2011 - 01:04 PM

We've got this chassis...

Posted Image

... and wanted to share it.

Posted Image

Here's a LINK to my thread with the details.

Any info on the "Korrect" parts for restoration or thoughts on this era would be much appreciated... and MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...





#2 NY Nick

NY Nick

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,048 posts
  • Joined: 14-December 07

Posted 25 December 2011 - 09:36 PM

I regret never buying one.
Nick Cerulli

#3 S.O. Watt

S.O. Watt

    Graduate Bench Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,140 posts
  • Joined: 24-June 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle, WA

Posted 26 December 2011 - 12:02 AM

I remember that car. I can help you out with an clear Corvette bod,

Ray was dialed at Elmsford. I remember when Joel, Jon, and I stayed at Ray's after an Elmsford race. It was his grandma's 84th (?) birthday party and all we wanted to do was sleep. The next day we were off to Holland for the '86 worlds.

That was a mold I did.

Tom Hansen
Our Gang Racing Team
Cukras Enterprises

Team Camen

Chassis By Hansen

I race and shop at Pacific Slot Car Raceway


#4 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,059 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 26 December 2011 - 12:27 AM

Nick, I know the feeling...

Tom, A Corvette bod would be great! Thank you! We want to get this car back to the way it belongs :good:

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#5 Phil Donaldson

Phil Donaldson

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 75 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Columbus, OH

Posted 26 December 2011 - 10:57 PM

Hey Rick,

If you need a clear Pro Slot March like the body pictured above let me know. I have a stack of ten NOS bodies. I would be happy to part with one or two of them.

Phil

Team Trend


#6 Ron Hershman

Ron Hershman

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,051 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indyanna

Posted 27 December 2011 - 09:17 AM

If this car is of '84 "vintage" I would think one of these Camen bodies would put it back to the "Korreckt" period... a Camen "Team" car would have had one of these bodies.......

Lola T600
Alpine Renault
Rondeau
Ford C100
Ford 82
McLaren Coupe
Porsche Gr C
Jag XJR-5
Lancia
Argo
Schkee

I remember lots of 82 Fords being used in this period. ;)

The Camen Vette was not available in '84 and not in the Camen catalog until 1987 or '88.

#7 S.O. Watt

S.O. Watt

    Graduate Bench Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,140 posts
  • Joined: 24-June 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle, WA

Posted 27 December 2011 - 03:03 PM

'84 was the year of the Lancia, and up through about '88/89 it was used extensively (I know I wished I'd a run one in the '88 Nats).The Lancia was ran pretty much everywhere by all the guys for a long time. I think I started playing with the Vette in late '86, I'd have to look at some race reports.

One would have to nail a year down for the restoration before picking all the correct bits. And I think I have a front wheel to replace the broken one.

Tom Hansen
Our Gang Racing Team
Cukras Enterprises

Team Camen

Chassis By Hansen

I race and shop at Pacific Slot Car Raceway


#8 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,059 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 27 December 2011 - 03:20 PM

Thanks for all the info guys. Below is what Jeff told me about the chassis in a PM.

"Beloved '84 Ray Kallio all steel, used by Dick DePaso to win the G27 Worlds at Elmsford. It had won me MANY races and $$$. The Kallio was the envy of many racers because Ray Kallio only made six or seven chassis total and they worked like no others on the Elmsford Nuvolari. Each one hand cut from a sheet of steel."

I guess it ideal way to restore the car would be the way it was when it won the Worlds at Elmsford. From the letter shown with the car above I'm ASSuming that was 1984?? I've PM'd Jeff but have received no reply as of yet.

Anyone familiar with that particular race?

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#9 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,320 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 27 December 2011 - 05:58 PM

'84 Worlds was the last time I was in a Raceway until Retro started.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#10 Ron Hershman

Ron Hershman

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,051 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indyanna

Posted 27 December 2011 - 07:08 PM

I will look through mags tomorrow for a race report and hopefully tech info from the 84 Worlds. Thinking now that being the car was built by Kallio for someone else...... it may have had a different MFG body on it being the car was owned by Dick DePaso ;)

#11 Phil Donaldson

Phil Donaldson

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 75 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Columbus, OH

Posted 27 December 2011 - 08:20 PM

I found the report of the 1984 Olympiad/Worlds race in the August 1984 issue of SARN.The issue has a two page report by Dick DePaso on how he won the Semi-Pro race and placed 6th in the Pro race.The tech sheet is very vague about what equipment was used on the Semi-Pro car.
Chassis-Kallio/DePaso
Set-up-RM640
Arm-Trinity
Controller-Difalco
Fronts-Speed/Sport
Rears-Alpha
Body-Camen?

Team Trend


#12 Ron Hershman

Ron Hershman

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,051 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indyanna

Posted 27 December 2011 - 09:15 PM

Phil,

Look at some issues after the Worlds report in the ads for O/S..... if he won with a OS body there would have been a advertisement. Pfeiffer won the Group 7 race with a Alpha Matra that was pulled by OS and I think there was a ad for that or a ad that mentioned that.

Phil.... who won the 27 race??? A girl from Elmsford or a guy from Chicago????

#13 Phil Donaldson

Phil Donaldson

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 75 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Columbus, OH

Posted 27 December 2011 - 09:49 PM

Ron,

I checked the issues I have and there are no adds from any of the body manufactures boasting about Dick's win.There is a full page ad congratulating Pfeiffer for winning with the Alpha Matra pulled by OS.

The 27 race was won by our old friend and nemesis Andy "The Big Red One" Wasserman.

Team Trend


#14 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,059 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 27 December 2011 - 09:58 PM

Thanks for everyone's help. I've been advised that perhaps there was some confusion about what race this chassis won:

Maybe the IM Nats are being confused with the Worlds. The IM Nats were alway in October after the Worlds which were held that summer.


Any ideas???

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#15 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,835 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 December 2011 - 10:01 PM

From JPVR's website:

G7
1984 Paul Pfeiffer (US) Jon Laster (US) Cs Szekelyhidi(US) Ray Kallio (US) Ernie Provetti (US) Dick Depaso (US) Henry Pena (US) Fred Forte (US)

G27 1984 Andy Wasserman(US) Jerry Kulich (CZ) Allison Hochstein(US)

I was in the Semi-Pro Main.
I think Dick Depaso might of won that race
or maybe Fred Forte.
I'm 98% sure it was one of the Elmsford regular's who also made the Pro Main.

Mike Swiss
 
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#16 Phil Donaldson

Phil Donaldson

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 75 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Columbus, OH

Posted 27 December 2011 - 10:42 PM

The tech sheet in my issue of SARN lists.

Semi-Pro
1.Dick DePaso
2.Timothy Borsetti
3.Greg Elner
4.Dan Camilleri

Team Trend


#17 Ron Hershman

Ron Hershman

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,051 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indyanna

Posted 27 December 2011 - 11:16 PM

OK maybe it was Allison who T.Q.ed in Gr 27 and then finished a fine 3rd.

Elmsford had a "Ice Breaker" race in Jan every year back then.....maybe that was the race?

The "IM" Nats were held back in the 70's and I do not recall any IM Nats in the 80's of from the period this chassis is from.

#18 S.O. Watt

S.O. Watt

    Graduate Bench Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,140 posts
  • Joined: 24-June 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle, WA

Posted 27 December 2011 - 11:22 PM

That chassis most likely has changed considerably since an August or earlier '84 spec chassis. The next month at the Nats, Csaba, Jon and Joel showed up,with their lite weight stuff. The rest they say is History.

Joel had a "Shuttle" (which the owner of this car was influenced by), Csaba and Jon their fly weight stuff. This chassis was probably built with the Herman pans hanging from the fronts which were pivoted on the center rail, plus full length pans. The next 6 months was a major revolution in chassis design. The conventional chassis of the time shed the hermans and front axles overnight, and the pans wasted away quickly to nothing. By December the "P" car was a reality from coast to coast.

So maybe you pick an time frame later in its competitive life (that it was last raced in) or you'll need to go find all the bits that were shed over time.

Tom Hansen
Our Gang Racing Team
Cukras Enterprises

Team Camen

Chassis By Hansen

I race and shop at Pacific Slot Car Raceway


#19 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,320 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 28 December 2011 - 07:10 AM

I agree.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#20 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,059 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 28 December 2011 - 12:51 PM

That chassis most likely has changed considerably since an August or earlier '84 spec chassis.......

So maybe you pick an time frame later in its competitive life (that it was last raced in) or you'll need to go find all the bits that were shed over time.


I agree.


I Agree also.

This project is in Rodney's hands and it's his decision. But, personally, I feel we don't have the parts or pictorial references to put it back to original. Right now it's in "one lump" and it lives again as it did in its later life.

For now at least........

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#21 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 42,151 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 28 December 2011 - 01:02 PM

'84 Worlds was the last time I was in a Raceway until Retro started.

Tony,
For me it's 1973 through 1994 when Ron Hershman dragged me from retirement! :shok: :dash2: :wacko2:

What was I thinking!? :crazy:

Philippe de Lespinay


#22 Ron Hershman

Ron Hershman

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,051 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indyanna

Posted 28 December 2011 - 01:33 PM

Ok so I dug out the issue of SARN that Phil also has........

Dick D won the Semi Pro race using a Kallio/DePaso chassis and a Camen body.....the style of the body was not listed....just the MFG. Maybe it was a Lancia as this was the new "hot" Camen body at the time.

Camen bodies were used by the Top 4 in S-Pro and 2nd through 5th, 6th not listed and 8th in the Pro race. 7th used a Pro-Slot body and it was the March ( made by Outisight ) as that was the only pro body P-S had at the time. The P-S Probe came out about a year later.

Dick D used a Ray Duran/DePaso chassis in the Group 7 race where he finished 6th...his body used for this race was not listed.

In the "report" written by Dick DePaso himself was more about his experience at the race and not so much about the race it's self.

In the article Dick said he put his DePaso "modified" pans on his Kallio center section and used this chassis in the S-Pro race.

For the Pro race....he used a Kallio "copy" center section made by Ray Duran with DePaso pans on it.

The Semi-Pro winning motor was a Camen RM-640 lightened by Kallio with a PK/Camen 18t/24 arm in it..... good luck finding both today....lol Speed Sport fronts, Alpha rears and Fass "lightweight" gears with the bigger aluminum hub and smaller bronze ring gear.

#23 Rick

Rick

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Partial Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,843 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PA

Posted 28 December 2011 - 05:01 PM

The tech sheet in my issue of SARN lists.

Semi-Pro
1.Dick DePaso
2.Timothy Borsetti
3.Greg Elner
4.Dan Camilleri


Some newer people to slot racing may not know that Dan Camilleri(4th place) is today known as Dan Miller, of PK arms.
Rick Bennardo
"Professional Tinkerer"
scrgeo@comcast.net
R-Geo Products
LIKE my Facebook page for updates, new releases, and sales: Rgeo Slots...
 
Lead! The easy equalizer...

#24 bronxcomet

bronxcomet

    senior master tech

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 42 posts
  • Joined: 22-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:driving the boxster

Posted 06 January 2012 - 02:20 AM

You may want to ask Al Pollack .Im sure he has alot of info on Rays stuff,they hung out a lot.Al was never into drugs and he can actually remember lots of details.Last time I came into NY Ray showed up at the Elmsford retro ,besides the pushing of the baby carriage he hadnt changed a bit (kinda spooky)................................Marty P

Marty Pollack


#25 dc-65x

dc-65x

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,059 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Captain Rick: The only vintage slot car nut in SW Oregon?

Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:05 PM

Rodney and Eric have finished up the Kallio G27 and done a lot of research and track testing. Before I share that I thought I should post the entire article from my sub forum to supplement the abbreviated version above:

A few years ago... quite a few years ago actually :shok: ... our fellow Slotblogger “Jaz” (Jeff) PM’d me about a couple of vintage chassis he had. He wanted to know if our SHPBAPSCR Museum would be interested in them. I thanked Jeff and told him they would run again :good: !

Jeff was a New York area racer and said.

"I raced against Joel and the Camen team for years and all the Nutley guys. I mainly raced at Buzzy's in Brooklyn and Glen Oaks on L.I."

One of the chassis he sent me was his:

"Beloved '84 Ray Kallio all steel, used by Dick DePaso to win the G27 Worlds at Elmsford. It had won me MANY races and $$$. The Kallio was the envy of many racers because Ray Kallio only made six or seven chassis total and they worked like no others on the Elmsford Nuvolari. Each one hand cut from a sheet of steel."

Here is the letter Jeff sent with the chassis:

Posted Image

Here is the chassis as I received it:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

My buddy Rodney was kind enough to take on the restoration. It is important to remember, as Rodney states below, that this is a “first crack” at the restoration. We welcome any constructive comments (or components!) that would lead to a more accurate restoration:

"Rick, First crack at restoring the Kallio.
As we discussed, Eric advised me on what should go into the car. Jeff said he ran a Pro Slot Hex motor in the car first. Eric said the Pro Slot Hex motor is similar to the Koford Feather 2 that I installed in the car. The armature in the Koford motor is a Group 27 armature. The Pro Slot Hex motor and the Koford Feather 2 motor are box or cube type motors and are almost square in size.
I tried to dig up all period pieces for the car.
I will send scans of the letters separately.
Thanks, Rodney"


Here she is:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

We'll have a track report when she's tested at Eddie's, Jeff, and thanks Rodney and Eric!

Again, we'd love to hear any info that would help in getting this car as "Korrect" as we can :).


Here are Rodney and Eric's comments, period articles and ads:

Rick,

The '84 Kallio steel chassis was certainly a fun and interesting project to research, restore and to run.

Jeff from Long Island raced the '84 Kallio at the legendary Elmsford Raceway and had much success on the huge Nuvolari track through 1990. Jeff tells of the '84 Kallio connection with obviously Ray Kallio, Dick Depaso, Group 27 and the 1984 Worlds at Elmsford.

Thanks to our historian Eric, enclosed are articles and an ad from a 1984 Old Weird Herald. First is an ad for the 4th World Championship race at Elmsford in 1984. Prize money for first place was 562,000 yen ($2,500US). Next is an article on driving tips for Elmsford's Nuvolari. What a 220' monster! Finally there is a chassis ad showing an inside gear steel chassis of the time. The rear uprights on the Kallio look similar to the ones in the ad.

1984 was one of the transition years for wing car motors and chassis. Jeff mentions the motor of the day used is a Proslot Hex motor. Enclosed is a portion of an article from Slotcar Bulletin Issue #74. Motors evolved from lightened C-cans to square or box motors such as the Proslot Hex and the Koford Feather 2 motor currently installed in the car. As the article says, strap motors were soon into production. Jeff says he later installed a Camen strap motor. I chose to install the Koford motor because I wondered how this type of larger motor would work. The Koford motor was purchased from Valley Raceway in Southern California around 1986.

Around 1984, chassis also evolved from the heavier steel chassis to the now common perimeter frames. Jeff lightened the chassis in the pan area for higher downforce bodies. But the chassis still retains its original pans. This car did not have the split pans that were common for the day. Also it appears that the short L arms for the front wheels are original. There are solder blobs later applied that stopped the L arm movement. There is no evidence of the car ever having had the more common longer L arms for the wheels hinged from the center of the chassis.

The lightly-restored car was brought to our local track, Eddie's Slot Car World in Vallejo, CA, for testing. The raceway owner Eddie also grew up in the New York area and ran at Elmsford. Seeing a car from Elmsford and talking about running on the Nuvolari brought back fond memories for Eddie. He recalled blasting around the Nuvolari with his hand-wound Mabuchi-powered car. He also recalled that slot car tracks back then, including the Nuvolari, were not smooth like modern tracks, and in fact the Nuvolari was quite bumpy. Jeff mentions the Kallio is set up with a lot of fore and aft movement to handle the rough surface. The chassis still retains the generous fore and aft movement.

The old motor with its 27 armature still has power, and it goes like one of our 1990's GT12 cars with slant magnet strap motors.

To gain balance, the wings were adjusted so they would spread out more and the rear spoiler was kicked up for more downforce. Driving 8/10ths or 9/10ths (I am probably not capable of driving 10/10ths), I was turning mid three-second laps on the Blue King.

Many different rear tires were used. The car works best with modern compound Koford .760s with non-full hub wheels. The track was mildly spray-glued for a NorCal race the day before. The car is very easy to drive and is very neutral. I did not feel the extra mass of the larger motor compared to a strap colbalt motor- powered car I have of the same vintage. The chassis really hooks up.

I have decided to leave the car in its current configuration. It was raced for many years and is a survivor.

Thanks to Jeff and Rick for letting me work on a piece of slot car history. Thanks to Eric for all of the research.

Rodney


Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

So here's the car back "in one lump", all tuned up and on the track again. Thanks Rodney and Eric for bring this car and some of 1984's slot car history "back to life".

I hope you like it Jeff.....

Posted Image

Onward

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...






Electric Dreams Online Shop