Jump to content




Photo

BRM and Scaleauto


  • Please log in to reply
38 replies to this topic

#26 Shruska55

Shruska55

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Joined: 05-November 18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Frankston, TX

Posted 27 May 2020 - 12:13 PM

Rich, one last thing about cost. when I got back into racing, I bought 2 RTR Flexis: one Indycar and a Lola with a Cheetah 21 chassis. Both were priced at around $100 each. a Homes Series Scaleauto RTR is around $90. A set of rear sponge tires to improve performance on a wood track run about $25 all in. So the prices are comparable. The customer can step up toe the metal frame products if they are interested.

 

To be very fair, the performance is absolutely Not comparable. The Flexis run rings around the Scaleauto as well they should. But my point, is if you are trying to bring in NEW racers with little experience into the hobby, would the Flexi RTR be the best way to introduce them to it or the more manageable speed and performance of a Scaleauto/BRM RTR type product? Our expereince is not theirs. We drive fast because we've done our 10000 laps. They are just getting started on lap 1. Do we remember our first? LOL

 

Everyone has to start somewhere. Jumping in as a wing car driver leaves little room for moving up in class, eh?

 

Just saying is all.


  • Tim Neja and Michael Jr. like this
Scott Hruska
East Texas




#27 Tim Neja

Tim Neja

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,344 posts
  • Joined: 11-June 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Paso Robles

Posted 27 May 2020 - 12:29 PM

When I first came to Florida there was a giant BRM class run at a couple of shops. Family’s racing and having fun. They ran them stock with just a change of tires. The owner of ASR kept changing the rules to things like no minimum weight, different motors etc and killed the class within a month.

Slots need a scale looking car people can throw in their box and not have to touch between races other then clean tires and oil it up. Take it out put it on the track and be competitive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've NEVER understood WHY some track owners insist on KILLING their racing class's this way!!  AND--WHY NOT go back to what was working?  I have seen the enemy--and he is US!! 


  • Shruska55 likes this
She's real fine, my 409!!!

#28 rvec

rvec

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,567 posts
  • Joined: 08-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 27 May 2020 - 01:05 PM

Tim is correct. KISS (keep it simple stupid). don't keep changing the rules. I mentioned above, I would run with Alan's rules for Scaleauto - basically no modifications. 

 

Scott - My preference has always been with scale looking cars. My opinion - flexis don't do it for me. I like the modeling aspects and close (but might be slower than flexi) competiton

 

The IROC idea is also a good one


  • Tim Neja and Michael Jr. like this

Rich Vecchio


#29 Shruska55

Shruska55

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Joined: 05-November 18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Frankston, TX

Posted 27 May 2020 - 08:02 PM

Rich,

 

If anyone remembers the old joke about the Young Bull and the Old Bull...It explains that speed and quality of performance is not always correlated... LOL. That joke may also be an example of Tim's KISS principle at work as well!

 

As of today, I approach this hobby from a racer's perspective as an individual running my own cars.  I want to compete, but I also want to hang with a group of like minded buddies, shoot the breeze and have a good time in the process. Any class of car that let's me do that is on the table for a trial run.

 

If I owned a raceway/event provider, I'd approach the business of model racing from a far different perspective. While taking into consideration what the customers may want, my  focus would be on running a successful business. That would, on occasion, be at odds with what the racer's may want or think they want. It all comes down to what drives revenue. I would be open to any idea, but only commit my business' hard earned funds to those from which I could make a reasonable ROI.

 

That runs counter to some of Scott, the personal racer's wants and needs already. Slotblog's thread on THAT topic regarding whether this is a hobby, sport, business etc is a VERY interesting read.

All the best


Scott Hruska
East Texas

#30 Michael Jr.

Michael Jr.

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 942 posts
  • Joined: 24-April 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spartanburg, SC

Posted 07 June 2020 - 06:55 AM

Rich, one last thing about cost. when I got back into racing, I bought 2 RTR Flexis: one Indycar and a Lola with a Cheetah 21 chassis. Both were priced at around $100 each. a Homes Series Scaleauto RTR is around $90. A set of rear sponge tires to improve performance on a wood track run about $25 all in. So the prices are comparable. The customer can step up toe the metal frame products if they are interested.

 

To be very fair, the performance is absolutely Not comparable. The Flexis run rings around the Scaleauto as well they should. But my point, is if you are trying to bring in NEW racers with little experience into the hobby, would the Flexi RTR be the best way to introduce them to it or the more manageable speed and performance of a Scaleauto/BRM RTR type product? Our expereince is not theirs. We drive fast because we've done our 10000 laps. They are just getting started on lap 1. Do we remember our first? LOL

 

Everyone has to start somewhere. Jumping in as a wing car driver leaves little room for moving up in class, eh?

 

Just saying is all.

 

This is exactly the reason I am bringing in the Scaleauto/BRM cars. The folks I am talking to that have no racing experience love to look at my cars that look like cars. The flexi car, especially the clear bodies on the wall, look foreign and complicated to them. When I have them looking at a hard body, a drag car, or a box model I'm selling they are interested and the conversation has energy. As soon as I pull out an unfinished flexi they stop talking. They don't have a point of reference and don't know what to make of that car.  They will in time of course. Flexi is still the standard slot car raced at slot car raceways but for the new guy wanting to watch little cars race, it looks like to much work. He just wants to get a car and race and have some fun. Hence...the attraction of the Scaleauto. And no, my rentals will not be hardbody or scaleauto, I'm keeping them the same old style tank with a belt drive that I've always run.


  • Shruska55 likes this

Michael Cannon

Upstate Speedway

100 McMillian St

Spartanburg, SC 29303

Adapt and Overcome


#31 Jay Guard

Jay Guard

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Administrator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,969 posts
  • Joined: 10-December 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:DeLand, FL

Posted 07 June 2020 - 08:12 AM

Michael:

Why would you want to rent a newbie what is arguably the worst handling slot car (Parma Whisper-Jet) ever made as his introduction to slot cars?  The whole idea is to make their first experience a good one, so having to walk around and re-slot the car on nearly every turn is not going to make them to want to come back for more.

A much better idea would be to armor-up a Champion T-Flex with a 25K motor geared down a bit, add a nice looking Can-Am body like a McLaren M-8A, and they will at least have a chance at keeping the car in the slot.  This is the one mistake that I see virtually every new slot car raceway make and I have never understood the concept.


  • Ramcatlarry, Rotorranch and Eddie Fleming like this

Jay Guard

IRRA Board of Directors Member, 2007-2010 (non-voting advisor)

Retro Racer & Flat Track Fanatic


#32 Ramcatlarry

Ramcatlarry

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,779 posts
  • Joined: 08-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St Charles, IL 60174

Posted 07 June 2020 - 02:02 PM

and if you want slower, the MidAm 18,000 rpm E-18 works very well at 3/1 gearing on older flexi frames


  • Michael Jr. likes this

Larry D. Kelley, MA
retired raceway owner... (for now)
race directing around Chicago-land

 

Diode/Omni repair specialist
USRA 2020 member # 133
IRRA, USSCA , MFTS, MidAmerica Hardbody racer

Host 2006 Formula 2000 & ISRA/USA Nats
Great Lakes Slot Car Club (1/32) member
60+ year pin Racing rail/slot cars in America


#33 Michael Jr.

Michael Jr.

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 942 posts
  • Joined: 24-April 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spartanburg, SC

Posted 07 June 2020 - 03:43 PM

Michael:

Why would you want to rent a newbie what is arguably the worst handling slot car (Parma Whisper-Jet) ever made as his introduction to slot cars?  The whole idea is to make their first experience a good one, so having to walk around and re-slot the car on nearly every turn is not going to make them to want to come back for more.

A much better idea would be to armor-up a Champion T-Flex with a 25K motor geared down a bit, add a nice looking Can-Am body like a McLaren M-8A, and they will at least have a chance at keeping the car in the slot.  This is the one mistake that I see virtually every new slot car raceway make and I have never understood the concept.

 

I've dropped the motor rpm


Michael Cannon

Upstate Speedway

100 McMillian St

Spartanburg, SC 29303

Adapt and Overcome


#34 Jay Guard

Jay Guard

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Administrator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,969 posts
  • Joined: 10-December 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:DeLand, FL

Posted 07 June 2020 - 03:53 PM

Michael:

That certainly is one approach, but understand that there is quite a difference between a car slow enough to (nearly?) not fall off and a truly good handling one.


  • Rotorranch likes this

Jay Guard

IRRA Board of Directors Member, 2007-2010 (non-voting advisor)

Retro Racer & Flat Track Fanatic


#35 Michael Jr.

Michael Jr.

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 942 posts
  • Joined: 24-April 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spartanburg, SC

Posted 07 June 2020 - 05:08 PM

Michael:

That certainly is one approach, but understand that there is quite a difference between a car slow enough to (nearly?) not fall off and a truly good handling one.

 

Yes I do understand what you are saying. And I wish that I had a perfect solution rather than the traditional solution. But these rentals worked well for me before so I am confident they will do ok again. No doubt there is a better solution but lacking some talent and knowledge, this was the best and easiest way for me to prepare and have something on the field with everything else going on with getting things ready to open. 

I am not just willing but excited to hear of other options however and once I have the doors open perhaps I can work toward getting something as an option. Right now, I would be willing to buy 8 good rentals to go with the rental fleet I've already put together. So if you know of someone with that sort of inclination, point them my way.  I want nothing more than to make this a good honest effort and getting a track out in front of people and bringing some new folks into the fold and host some great and fun events with veteran and core group racers. For whatever reason, I really love doing this....as does most on this blog for many different reasons. That's one thing I like, we all love it for different reasons. Some love the speed, some love the competition, some love the connections made over time, some love the tracks, shops, series, history and nostalgia..... and on it goes. So long story short.... if you can find me a set of cars I'll try my best to afford them. :)


Michael Cannon

Upstate Speedway

100 McMillian St

Spartanburg, SC 29303

Adapt and Overcome


#36 Shruska55

Shruska55

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Joined: 05-November 18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Frankston, TX

Posted 07 June 2020 - 07:34 PM

Micheal,

 

Are considering dedicating one track as your rental track? If so, then configure that track for the type of rental you want to use. TheScaleAuto/ BRMs are perfectly fine for a new racer. It introduces them to Model Car Racing. Not just slot cars. As mentioned, they aren't the greatest handling units, but then, a Flexi can comes off the track just as quickly for a new driver. Fast and inexperienced trigger fingers work the same way as too slow. Plus, with ScaleAuto and BRM, you probably won't have to adjust track voltage to slow them down.

 

If someone shows promise, then make a spot decision as to whether to 'promote' them to a faster track with a faster car. The JK Flexi RTRs fit that biil perfectly. They are also  reasonably priced and are closer to resembling a Model Race Car. Either or both are great options. Just leave them stock and run races for those stock classes. Not every racer wants or needs Wings to fly.

 

At that point, a driver has potentially had two different experiences and can make their own decision as to which class to run. Perhaps both, or Thanks...Not my thing.

 

As a Entertainment business, regardless of the type of car used, one idea is to advertise/promote and sell a monthly event as a Driver's School. Complete with car and controller rental  for 2-4 hours depending on the number who signed up. Advertise to local youth oriented groups to get a mix rather than just a specific family or company group. Schedule it with time for video introduction of driving techniques, then  practice and finally, a multi-heat race. You may wish to assemble Teams for the heats. Built in marshals. Might even create lifelong friendships from those Team events. Schools do that. This type of event works well in other industries by the way.

 

Don't forget to include as part of the package, company logo gear, e,g, hat, shirt, or coffee mug. for take home. Award everyone a Driving School Completion Certificate. Suitable for framing, of course. I've still got t-shirts and coffee mugs, gimme hats from different type of company events I attended years ago. I still have friends and contacts all over the world tagged to that gear.I imagine there are manufacturers who will co-op the advertising cost for a reprint of their name/logo somewhere on the gear.

 

All the best and I certainly hope you are successful.


Scott Hruska
East Texas

#37 Michael Jr.

Michael Jr.

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 942 posts
  • Joined: 24-April 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spartanburg, SC

Posted 08 June 2020 - 10:36 AM

Scott, 

I'm all over your first two paragraphs. The Scaleauto and Flexi thinking is part of the planning and I'm stocking for that already. My homeschool page of the web site even discusses choosing a path and then how to bridge across and why they want to do that.  The part about the driving school sounds great, but I'm not sure about the response I would get. I'll give that some thought and prayer...and see if it begins to take shape in my head.

 

I have a license printed that I will be using to give the kids and planned to give them an orientation on the rental cars. When they come in I will hold the license while they race and give it back when they turn their equipment back in. I also think they will be showing that license around

 

The logo, hat and shirt or mug....all over that. I've already given away a number of logo shirts and more of that is coming. Kids sizes are being printed daily now that I've got all my 3X done.

Attached Images

  • IMG_8291.jpg
  • IMG_8293.jpg
  • IMG_8292.jpg

Michael Cannon

Upstate Speedway

100 McMillian St

Spartanburg, SC 29303

Adapt and Overcome


#38 Shruska55

Shruska55

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Joined: 05-November 18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Frankston, TX

Posted 08 June 2020 - 10:46 AM

With all the great Texas BBQ in my area, that 3X is fast becoming my go to size! LOL

 

Think of the driving school relative to an adult buying a new car. Gotta have that test drive. If the 15% return on premium redemption still applies to coupons, perhaps that 15% can be applied to potential return on new racers/hobbyists.

 

Go get 'em!

 

All the best,

ScottH


  • Michael Jr. likes this
Scott Hruska
East Texas

#39 Shruska55

Shruska55

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Joined: 05-November 18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Frankston, TX

Posted 24 July 2020 - 05:20 PM

Michael,

 

Scott, 

I'm all over your first two paragraphs. The Scaleauto and Flexi thinking is part of the planning and I'm stocking for that already. My homeschool page of the web site even discusses choosing a path and then how to bridge across and why they want to do that.  The part about the driving school sounds great, but I'm not sure about the response I would get. I'll give that some thought and prayer...and see if it begins to take shape in my head.

 

 

 

If you haven't seen this, here's a Slotblog link to a neat, inexpensive near RTR our club is experimenting with. It's slightly less than the BRM, offers some educational opportunities and possible event product from Pro-Track.

 

All the best on your opening. I saw the post today about the TrackMate issues.

ScottH


Scott Hruska
East Texas





Electric Dreams Online Shop