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First Retro F1 chassis build


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#26 Revtor

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 07:52 PM

Sloppy gloppy!! Not proud of that but Im here to document this whole thing. .

The 1/16 brass was definitely pushing the limits of my iron, I think the rear end will be easier since its a lot less mass. Working from the slots in the tongue -thats the ticket!! For next one I guess.

Having fun!
~ Steve Maietta




#27 Pablo

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 08:01 PM

The only person calling it "sloppy" is you LOL

It looks fine to me


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#28 crazyphysicsteacher

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 06:51 AM

Yup. Those fore-and-aft slots just beg to be pooled with acid and short pieces of solder layed in.
Then lay your hot chisel tip in the slot until everything flows wet.
 
It takes a lot of horsepower to melt solder on thick brass, like Swiss said.
Make sure you have it held down like you show in your photo so it can't migrate.
 
The tricky part is not melting things you don't want to  :)

All part of learning to build retro. Just remember, flux is your friend. If you think you have just enough, add more.

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#29 tonyp

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 07:24 AM

My mantra

Use more flux then you think you need

Use less solder then you think you need

Turn your iron up to 11.


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#30 Pablo

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 07:26 AM

You may already know this, but in situations where the iron just doesn't have quite the amount of oomph to flow thick brass, here is a tip.

Get the piece off the jig and onto a wood block. The wood won't suck heat as much and the solder will flow better.

 

Even better, if and where you can, get the piece suspended off the block altogether.

Things heat up MUCH quicker. And if you're not careful, things will fall off.

 

60/40 heats at a lower temp, followed by 63/37, then silver solder.

60/40 jumps gaps the best, followed by 63/37, then silver.


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#31 Bill from NH

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 08:06 AM

60/40 is the most easily obtained electrical solder. I would fact check 63/37.


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#32 tonyp

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 08:24 AM

Those honeycomb ceramic blocks are also good for soldering thick brass on.


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#33 Revtor

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 03:03 PM

Thanks for the tips guys, I do appreciate it!
This is something Ive wanted to do ever since being obsessed with a 1970s slot car book in my elementary school library. Everything was handmade and brass. Man I wish I could find that book today..

.. actually it all started in the mid 80s at a birthday party at Elmosford Raceway.
~ Steve Maietta

#34 Revtor

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 03:10 PM

Made some progress today.. more flux!! More heat!! Worked well. Tomorrow adding the bracing to the rear end and then scrounging through my brass scraps for something suitable to use for mounting the pans. Thin wire inside tubing of some sort..?
Rear axle ball bearings - carefully soldered in?

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~ Steve Maietta

#35 Bill from NH

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 05:04 PM

Chassis looks good so far Steve!  Depending upon how much pan movement you want, you could use .047, .055. or .063 piano wire inside 3/32' tubing. Are those rear tire divots in the jig working as you expected to keep things aligned? A lot of people solder in ball bearings, I don't, other than flangeless motor bearings in cans. I use a Loctite retaining compound to glue them it. Some I glued in during the 70's are still glued in.


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#36 SpeedyNH

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 05:56 PM

FWIW, when i used to glue in my ball bearings, i'd flood 'em with Tri-flow (teflon-loaded silicone oil) to help keep the acid out. 


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#37 slotcarone

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 06:21 PM

Make sure you put a brace on the axle uprights. This chassis was built probably 8 or 9 years ago.

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#38 slotcarone

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 06:23 PM

Looks good so far. Now take that center section and bring it to the sink and scrub it with SOS pads. Don't use Brillo!


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Mike Katz

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#39 Revtor

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Posted 18 August 2020 - 08:06 AM

Bill thanks for the input regarding pan mounting. I’ll see what I’ve got around. Yeah the divots let the tires sit low so I don’t need jig wheels. The pins and guide bolt have kept everything aligned.. or so it seems! Once I get the front axle soldered to the uprights we can check on how my final clearance worked out with those divots (.060 deep)

Mike I’ll definitely be bracing my axle uprights both front and rear. This is my first F1, it’s going to take a few hits inevitably. I’d rather it be a bit heavier but stronger.
~ Steve Maietta

#40 Revtor

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Posted 18 August 2020 - 01:13 PM

Progress..
Rear braced, front axle set to height and braced. Axle tube cut, pan pieces cleaned up for eventual mounting.
About those pans. . .
My understanding is that the pans rattle left and right along with the body to set the car a bit in the turns. So I should be looking to mount these pans in a way that allows them to move left and right but very minimally forward and backwards. As the pans sit in their current state there would be about 55 to 60 thou available left / right motion.
Am I in the ballpark with this?

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#41 slotcarone

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Posted 18 August 2020 - 03:43 PM

What thickness are the side pans? They look kind of thin for an F1.


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#42 Revtor

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Posted 18 August 2020 - 04:10 PM

Sidepans are .032
Middle is .063

I could double them..?
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~ Steve Maietta

#43 tonyp

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Posted 18 August 2020 - 04:17 PM

I’d double side pans and make center pan .032.


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#44 slotcarone

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Posted 18 August 2020 - 07:44 PM

I would listen to that Tony guy. I hear he has built a few chassis!


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#45 Dominator

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Posted 18 August 2020 - 08:03 PM

For side to side movement (shaker pan set up) in F1 I use a piece of paper (.002"-003").  I place this between one pan and the main rails while pushing both pans together while soldering the two retaining wiring into place.  Then just check for movement side to side.  You want just enough to feel movement so the chassis is not bound up.  As for vertical movement most I think use .055 wire inside of 3/32 square tubing.  Some are going for an even tighter fit.

 

On a higher speed track tighter is better/faster.  On a track with lesser bit and flatter style turns a little more movement is generally better.


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#46 Revtor

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Posted 19 August 2020 - 07:57 AM

Well dang looks like Im back to sawing some more bits. Heavier parts on the outside, got it.

Only a tiny bit of motion side to side, but more movement up and down. Im not building this for a particular track, so Ill try and keep it on the loose side. Could always tighten it up when time comes for tuning. Time to study some some F1 chassis pics...

Thank you Mike, Tony, and Dominator! Tony your F1 chassis thread has been invaluable!
~ Steve Maietta

#47 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 19 August 2020 - 12:08 PM

heavier pans on an F1 are a good idea, but you could take the build in lightness approach and add weight as needed.

 

If you are sure you need pan weight then sure make them heavy in the first place, but it is easier to add weight than to remove it.

 

Just wanted to confuse matters as much as possible.


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#48 crazyphysicsteacher

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Posted 19 August 2020 - 01:37 PM

The heavier pans on the f1 help to prevent them from bending. I know, been there done that. If you want lightness, use wire soldered full length for the pans. Also, make sure that you include how the pans and hangers will effect the chassis. You want some twist but not alot or the car will be way loose off corner. You also want the pans to help stiffen the chassis when you load the car under acceleration to provide bite.

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#49 dtosetto

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 03:08 PM

Can you share the design file ? I like to to build one also, Thank you, OK


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