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Making a 'Tanglewinder'


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#1 Larry Horner

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 09:52 PM

I’ve never made an anglewinder and figured it would be a fun COVID lockdown project.

 

But to keep it simple (remember, first one), I deiced to start out with this Chicagoland product that was perfect for my needs. Mike, I hope you aren’t considering discontinuing these!

 

Chicagoland Bracket.JPG

 

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#2 Larry Horner

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 09:55 PM

So I started the same way I do many of my projects by making a sub-assembly, in this case the motor pod. It’s just a couple of pieces of .063” stainless but I’d be lying if I said I got it right on the first try (that’s going to be a recurring theme).

 

Also while the bracket can be used with whatever angle you like, I decided on a 15 degree angle for reasons I’ll talk about later. Here it is right out of the jig and with the axele carrier installed for .765" tires.

 

Motor Pod 1.JPG

 

Motor Pod 2.JPG


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#3 Larry Horner

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 09:57 PM

One interesting caveat of Mike’s bracket is that the gap under the motor plate is more that .063”, which at first you’d think is a problem. But I solved this by soldering in a piece of .125” L-beam and cutting off the portion that sticks out the other side. It both strengthens the bracket and gives the wire underneath a larger surface to bond with so it’s a win-win. This is lucky break number one.

 

Motor Pod 3.JPG

 

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#4 Larry Horner

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 09:58 PM

I did notice that with my 15 degree choice, the space for the actual motor was pretty tight. But I was already planning to use a Hawk mini-can motor which has no problem due to its endbell design. It’s almost as though I thought this out beforehand but no, it’s lucky break number 2.

 

Motor Pod 4.JPG

 

 

 

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#5 Larry Horner

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 10:00 PM

Well, things were going so well that I was getting cocky. So I decide to push the envelope and make my first anglewinder also be my first tuning fork chassis… what could possibly go wrong?

 

OK, I actually did think about this part in advance. Remember my choice of a 15 degree angle? I realize you get a bit better gear mesh with a shallower angle. But a shallower angle would make my motor pod assembly longer and that in turn makes the length of my tuning fork shorter. And since there are both 15 and 16 degree beveled spur gears out there, I decide that would be a good compromise.

 

And now for what turned out to be the hardest part of this endeavor. Remember when I said it took me a couple of tries to get the compound bends on the motor pod ironed out? Well it took me more than a couple to get the tuning fork arms bent correctly. There is something about the look of a tuning fork chassis that I think is esthetically beautiful but I now have a huge respect for those builders that actually make them… these puppies are a bitch!

 

Motor Pod with Tuning Forks.JPG


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#6 Bill from NH

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 10:14 PM

Larry,

 

Nice-looking build! Your workmanship appears as if it was done by an experienced hand.

 

Keep up the good work.  :)


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#7 Larry Horner

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 10:24 PM

Thanks, Bill! I remember a quote by Rick Thigpen where he said Steve Okeefe knew how to solder and he knew how to sand. I'm starting to get more proficient at the latter but still have a ways to go on the former.



#8 dc-65x

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 10:48 PM

Looks great, Larry!   :good:


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#9 John Luongo

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 04:40 AM

Nice build! Bet it handles as good as it looks!



#10 slotcarone

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 05:52 AM

Looks great so far!

 

On the gear side, are you removing the square corner of the chassis rail or is the gear going inside of it? :)


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#11 Pablo

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 08:32 AM

:good:  :clapping:


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#12 Larry Horner

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 09:50 AM

Thanks, guys!

 

And Mike, I mocked it up before I started and determined that the gear can run inside the rail which is both convenient and makes the motor pod a bit stronger.



#13 Larry Horner

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 11:11 PM

Years ago I bought a Can Am chassis from a track that used to be up in Rohnert Park, CA. At the time I bought it, I didn’t know who made it but what I discovered was that it had amazing handling. A bit of inquiry revealed that the chassis had been made by Jim Fowler, a fellow NorCal resident. Then I found his “On the Jig” section in SlotBlog. I’m sure most of you have already been in there but if not, it is a treasure trove of wonderful builds!

 

Anyway, my own build sat for a couple of months as a motor pod with a couple of tuning fork tines sticking out the front as my muse had left. But then I remembered that Jim had been doing a lot of work with tuning fork chassis so I thought maybe I might find some inspiration there. That is when I discovered this beauty of a chassis:  http://slotblog.net/...g-fork-version/

 

I was instantly smitten with this design so I contacted Rick Bennardo who said the chassis was still available. The only question was whether or not my fat *** angle winder backend would fit into a design clearly meant for a slim hipped inline. But it wasn’t that expensive and the worse case scenario would be that if it was a no go, I could still make a lovely inline tuning fork chassis. So I bought one and I have to say the quality of the parts was amazing. I’ve done more than my fair share of laser cutting but these parts had perfect cuts without the slightest hint of flashing that you typically get with laser cutting. This is just conjecture on my part but I would guess these are probably hydro cut. Anyway if you’ve ever thought about trying a RGeo chassis kit, I’m sure you won’t be disappointed.

 

Jim, as an enticement to visit your post, I stole one of you pics!

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#14 Larry Horner

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 11:24 PM

And now the answer to the $64K question but first let me point out a few details:

 

1. The angle winder backend BARELY fits. This is hugely lucky break number 3. And like before, it almost looks like I planned it … but no.

 

2. Once I trimmed the rear pan supports, there was absolutely none of their trailing dog leg left and the 3/8” butt joint was not gonna hold. So I fabricated some buttresses to both tie them to the main rales and provide some vertical shear support.

 

3. Based on Jim’s experience, I copied his design for the inner front pan supports exactly.

 

4. Jim also reported that his chassis handled better when he soldered the front of at least one of the tuning rails. Currently mine are both floating as I want to experiment a bit with it first but I might follow suit at some point and solder one or both tines into place.

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#15 Larry Horner

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 11:45 PM

And here is my completed TangleWinder. The wheelbase is 4”, tongue lead is 7/8” and total weight is exactly 50 grams. I’m really pleased with how it came out and I only hope it handles well too. And one final thanks to Dennis Samson who both soda blasted and tumbled it for me. In fact the soon to be roller is going to use some of his BB fronts and a weighted guide flag as well. I’ll post the roller when I get it together.

 

Now the only question is what body to put on it!

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#16 NSwanberg

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Posted 14 April 2021 - 01:34 AM

Is that outside rail around the gear going to clear everything at 3.125?

 

Nice build!


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#17 Bill from NH

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Posted 14 April 2021 - 07:09 AM

Larry, your final product certainly looks fine! I look forward to seeing it as a roller & then a complete slot car. You probably know what the popular retro body is, but I'd like to see a Ferrari body of some type on it.  :)


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#18 Larry Horner

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Posted 14 April 2021 - 10:58 AM

Thanks guys.!

 

Nelson, your question is well founded and is the reason the fork tines stop short of going all the way to the back of the motor pod. By stopping where they do, there is just tad over .063" clearance when the tires are set to 3.125". And in answer to an earlier question, the gear clearance to the pod rail is just a tad under .063". So everything fits but not by much.

 

Bill you are a man of my own heart! I know the popular retro bodies are more aerodynamic but there is just something about detailed vintage bodies that I really like. So, I was thinking of a Porsche 906 but a Ferrari 330 P3 would be a very cool choice too ... both are very low and very sexy.


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#19 Pablo

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Posted 14 April 2021 - 01:40 PM

Very SANO, Larry  :clapping:  :sun_bespectacled:

 

Maybe as a temporary means of testing how the car would react to one of the tuning fork wires soldered up solid - a tapered toothpick inserted would make it solid as a test for a few laps. If it helps, solder. If not, no go. ?


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#20 Larry Horner

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Posted 14 April 2021 - 02:12 PM

Thanks Pablo and that is a great testing idea! There is another link in Jim's section in which he made a tunable tuning fork ... fascinating stuff if you haven't already read it.


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#21 Larry Horner

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 09:06 PM

There was some interest is seeing the roller and since I already had all the parts, I went ahead and assembled it this week. Here is a parts rundown:

 

Motor - JK neo setup motor that’s running BBs front and back. It’s got an American Made Hawk arm. I’ve used this combo before and it’s a really sweet motor.

 

Gearing - 64 pitch with a 10 tooth pinion and a 37 tooth 16 degree spur. Right now I am using a brass press on pinion (JK) but will switch to a steel one once I figure out the ratio. This ratio I know works well for my .812 retros with the same motor but this is my first car with .765 rears. Also once I get the ratio sorted, I might switch to 72 pitch.

 

Fronts - .750” Dennis Samson double BB CanAm tires (he makes wider F1 tires too). This is about the 8th pair I’ve purchased from him and they are awesome.

 

Rears - .765 Koford fish rubber with mag hubs.

 

Guide - JK low profile that Dennis weighted for me. I’ve never run a weighted guide before and am excited to see how they perform.

 

Axle - Because my design has a bit more distance between the left tire and the spur gear than normal, I ended up using a PCH retro drag axle which has a very wide flat area. It works out perfectly on the gear side but I still need to trim it down a bit on the right side (this axel is a bit longer than a standard rear).

 

The above items add another 40 grams bringing the roller weight to exactly 90 grams. I’ve also decided I’m going to make two bodies for it. One will be the Ti-22 that is so popular in retro racing right now but also a JK Porsche 906 for my old school side.  Bill, it’s not a Ferrari but it’s still a pretty gorgeous car!

 

Oh, I threw in a shot of the rear underside that shows where the gear and tires are in relation to the motor pod rails. Couple of people asked about that.

Attached Images

  • Ortho.JPG
  • Side.JPG
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#22 MSwiss

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 09:24 PM

Great job, Larry.

I would triangulate your motor attachment.

IOW, solder the front or back of the can to an additional piece of wire.

Or drop a large piece of tubing in between the back of the can, and the bearing tube.(maybe not as practical because of the fairly steep motor angle)
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#23 Larry Horner

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 10:01 PM

Thanks Mike! And I was thinking the same thing. Once I get the gearing sorted, I plan to solder a V shaped wire from the bottom of the axle tube to the back of the motor.


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#24 Pablo

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 10:01 PM

Awesome  :heart:  :heart:  :heart:

 

I can't find anything I don't like about it  :D  :crazy:  Except to follow Mike's motor brace advice before you chew up your gears. I'd brace it with a piece of .047 or .055 wire opposite the gear end. You do not want that powerplant to wiggle up and down as the pinion tries to climb the spur. You get bunny hop and it could ruin that Cahoza spur in 2 laps


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#25 MSwiss

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 10:16 PM

One thing to add why the brace is probably necessary.

That's a neat little powerplant, but the can is not nearly as stiff as the one on FK motors.

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