38 replies to this topic

[Wink Hackman]

Well, as we know we didn't all make flywheel cars after the 90's. So any advantage wasn't worth the hassle. And I wonder why nobody tried something simpler like a massive brass comm cooler:). Let's not even think about dynamic balance. Development has headed towards ever-lighter, higher-revving motors. I think the gyro effect is an important part of the story, but maybe reducing motor torque has had the biggest effect.

[Phil Hackett]

There is a gyro effect. In fact, the late Neal McCurdy used it to develop and invent the Panavision SteadiCam. Neal was an engineer at Panavision and left there after his boss took credit & accepted an Oscar for the invention. Mike Brannian and Mike Boemker can verify this as they hung out at RevTech often.

 

Whether this gyro effect has any real effects on slot cars is the question. I believe the gyro effect is the result of spin radius, the amount of rotating mass, and speed of the mass. It just might be that the spin radius and the mass of the armature is so small, regardless of the speed, that there's almost no effect.

 

I believe all this "picky" technical stuff doesn't really do good if you cannot control the car around the track. The average enthusiast might see this stuff and get discouraged when all he needs to do is to practice driving more. Driving smoother and **KEEPING THE CAR IN THE SLOT** is the highest performance tip anyone can use for success.

[Eddie Fleming]

Hold a motor between your fingers and spin it up to screaming.

 

now how hard is it to move it around in all directions?

 

That is the gyro effect.

 

How strong is it?

[Mark Onofri]

Thanks Wink, that's the one. Seems like a lot of work, wonder if it was worth it.
I'd like to try a pinion on both ends, the same size and larger/smaller to see the effects. Anyone tried this? Might be negligible but, IDK? Maybe I'm just way to board.

[MSwiss]

Well, as we know we didn't all make flywheel cars after the 90's. So any advantage wasn't worth the hassle. And I wonder why nobody tried something simpler like a massive brass comm cooler:). Let's not even think about dynamic balance. Development has headed towards ever-lighter, higher-revving motors. I think the gyro effect is an important part of the story, but maybe reducing motor torque has had the biggest effect.

When I saw that pic of the inline F1 car, on FB, I honestly thought the flywheel was there to provide anti-braking.

If I was going to try it, I would use a 1/24th Eurosport car with a short motor, with room on the other side of the motor box.

I would mount a second spur gear on that other side, that would drive a small pinion soldered to a 2MM shaft, running thru a fairly small dia. brass rod mounted low as possible.

The uprights for the BB'S, instead of having 5MM diameter round holes, would be 5MM wide slotted arc's, so you could resolder them up higher to accommodate bigger diameter rods.

[Uncle Fred]

Now I understand the "Gyro Effect".  My head is spinning and I can't stand up!

[Mark Onofri]

Uncle Fred, either your gyro is out of balance or check your accelerometer. If all else fails, have a beer.

[crazyphysicsteacher]

The effect does exist. However, to experience it you have to be able to drive the car into the corner and through the corner. All braking must be done prior to the corner as you are using power on to help keep the guide in the slot. That is why flexi guys will gear the car to keep the motor screaming through the corner than for top speed.
If you go to an Inline car, it all goes out the window.

Sent from my Nokia XR20 using Tapatalk

[NSwanberg]

In angle winder/side winder the armature and the axle assembly turn in opposite directions. Just food for more thought.

[Mark Onofri]

Crazyphysicsteacher , I like the way you described what I was trying to explain in my post. It's makes more sense. And yes, it was a flexi. A Ferret.
I'm assuming that this gyroscopic state pertains to all stamped steel chassis's (that are angel winders)?
I'm asking this because I thought it only applied to stamped steel chassiss on oval tracks.

[Mark Onofri]

Phill H, I just reread your post. It dawned on me that model motoring pancake motors would,by design, display a more pronounced gyro effect. Then again, I could be wrong. It looks more like a gyroscope anyway.(without the pivots)

[stoo23]

There is a gyro effect. In fact, the late Neal McCurdy used it to develop and invent the Panavision SteadiCam. Neal was an engineer at Panavision and left there after his boss took credit & accepted an Oscar for the invention. Mike Brannian and Mike Boemker can verify this as they hung out at RevTech often.

 

Hi Phil, I had noticed this info' before and had mean't to comment / correct it but never got around to it, which I now have, in another reference to Neil McCurdy,  see here: http://slotblog.net/...acers/?p=861592

 

 As reported elsewhere, there was AFAIK, No 'Gyro' effect, as there were NO Gyro's used in or on the Unit ??? ​Also, as far as I am aware, Panavision, was Never awarded an Oscar for their 'Panaglide Unit, as basically it was not widely accepted and used and was inferior to the Cinema Products Steadicam™

It is very possible there was an Oscar being awarded to a Film the Panaglide had been used on though perhaps being "Days of Heaven", which did win an Oscar for best Cinematography in 1978 and was one of the first films (along with "Halloween") the Panaglide was used on

Cheers

[Mark Mattei]

I'm pretty sure gyro effect is a thing.

I was skeptical at first, but the Eurosport guys who really jump through hoops to achieve it, are ultra serious slot racers.

There was a video of Lee Gilbert trimming down the end of an arm shaft to 1.5MM, for a 6T pinion, running the motor on a power supply and using a Dremel tool.

For him to do stuff like that, he had to be real convinced the added gyro effect aided the handling.

If it was just a matter of having instant acceleration, you could do that with arm wind and timing.

In some of the 1/32 cars, they have gone to a 1.2MM shaft so they can use a 5T pinion.

My experiences, I remember trying to use a B Production car that Manta Ray had left me, that had an 8T pinion, for an event at my raceway.

I thought it ran well until I tried someone else's car with a 7T.

It was slower on the straightaway, but probably at least .2-.3 faster around the car.

2 different cars, but it was still real convincing.

This thread jogged a wing car memory of mine, probably from about 1997 or 98.

On a lark, because Koford started selling a 7T pinion for Eurosport/scale racing, I tried one for the heck of it, with the most unlikely wind for it, a 94.5.

It had no bank speed, but it whistled around the infield, and I used that motor, parts of a couple big races I won.

A friend would ask "What's with the sound of that motor?"

I fed him some BS he never bought, and when I ran it, he would always say "You're running that Highwinder, aren't you?" Lol

The thought was to use it for a Purple, Black, Yellow, with the shorter trip to the Deadman, but a long way around the Donut.

But the car handled so well, I started using it on Red.

At a race in Alabama, I remember going into the 90,and hearing the guy next to me on White spinning his pinion in the Donut.

I had zero chance to stop and knew I was screwed.

My driver side rear, clobbered his stopped car, the spur gear lasting just long enough, that I made it back to the panel, quickly replaced it, and still won the race.

I then abandoned the 7T pinions because I was worried the more "starry" shape was at least a bit harder on the spur gear.

Back then, it never occurred to me that the reason it seemed that car couldn't be driven out of the slot, was the added gyro effect of the 7-38 gearing.

. I wonder if the Gyro effect played a part in the success of the Lancia Stratos rally cars.

[Dave Crevie]

. I wonder if the Gyro effect played a part in the success of the Lancia Stratos rally cars.

 

If it did, I would have been able to feel it in my 206. Same motor and drive train. Both sidewinders. About the same weight. Personally I think the big advantage was that engine. Derived  from the 166 F-1, it was around 300 horsepower, and with those 40 mm Webers, response from idle to 8500 RPM was almost instantaneous. 

 

 

 

Here's the engine in a 206gt;

 

 

The differences are negligible. The 166 has four individual cam covers, the 206 has the covers joined into one at the front. The 166 has two oil fillers, one on each of the valley side cam covers. The 206 has a single oil filler on the exhaust side of the right (rear) cover. The distributor drives off the rear of the left side, exhaust camshaft on the 166. The 206 drives from the front of the right side exhaust camshaft.  Otherwise, except for bore and stroke, the engines are the same.