35 replies to this topic

[Alchemist]

So they claim!

 

[Tim Neja]

Well maybe – but all that suspension is totally not needed.

[MG Brown]

All of that 'innovation' and a pink Parma 48p inline crown gear?

[Cheater]

Simply puffery.

[Bill from NH]

I think the AMT Turnpike cars of '62 were more innovative. They had actual front steering, you could change lanes via a crossover, soft grippy rubber tires for plastic track, and with just four screws you could put multiple different AMT model kit bodies on the chassis. Model kits in those days were less than $2 and some kits as old as '58s fit those chassis.

 

On the downside, you couldn't run the cars on just any track with a slot, without modifying the cars. And assembling and disassembling the AMT oval was a royal PITA!

[John Luongo]

All that innovation for "$29.95". How do they do that? One wall shot would re-align everything. Longer track calls.

[Dave Crevie]

I didn't see it run. I can design all sorts of stuff that doesn't work. 

[Paul Menkens]

I see in the Technical Journal a small handful of companies made steering chassis back in the 60s, including Cox, K&B, Rail Line (l never heard of this one before) MRRC and Super Shells. lt also appears that Lindberg and a few others sold kits that had steering mechanisms but did not sell the frames separately. l don't recall ever seeing a race report with a steering car winning or even entering. l also have a handful of Bachmann Spectrum HO passenger cars with a similar setup where the couplers swivel when they go through curves, l call them the "Troublesome Trucks", anyone with a kid or grandkid who watches Thomas The Tank Engine should know what that means.

[Paul Menkens]

Those Bachmann heavyweights look great, they just don't play well with any other brands.

[Alchemist]

Now that I've viewed the video a few times, I deduce the statement "most innovative in 50 years" is due to the fact that it is 3D printed!

 

Just my observation.

 

Ernie

[NSwanberg]

I didn't see it run. I can design all sorts of stuff that doesn't work. 

 

The problem is you don't know for sure until you try it....maybe even a few times.

 

The worst case scenario is when it only worked the first time.

[Dave Crevie]

Here's a build and sort-of test of one of the other chassis available;

 

https://youtu.be/3tJ...2oy2FFiG70YuuLK

 

Some on-track video;

 

https://youtu.be/rhP...xZ9Oq-tz4W6u4Rq

 

I'll let you guys discuss this, and ad my comments from and engineering view.

[zipper]

I see in the Technical Journal a small handful of companies made steering chassis back in the 60s, including Cox, K&B, Rail Line (l never heard of this one before) MRRC and Super Shells. lt also appears that Lindberg and a few others sold kits that had steering mechanisms but did not sell the frames separately. l don't recall ever seeing a race report with a steering car winning or even entering. l also have a handful of Bachmann Spectrum HO passenger cars with a similar setup where the couplers swivel when they go through curves, l call them the "Troublesome Trucks", anyone with a kid or grandkid who watches Thomas The Tank Engine should know what that means.

 

French Jouef had also steering on their 1/43 cars on 1960s:

 

[Doug Ritt]

Hi Guys-

 

I expected a bit of "puffery" comments from the old guard on SlotBlog, but I wish you would embrace new products and ideas rather than throw darts.

So, being the chief designer of this slot car, I will give my design philosophy, then let you fellows act and comment as you like. I would hope that you give other SlotBlog users the respect that somehow has evaded me.

And Greg Wells, seeing your comment, and that you are the administrator, I can see why SlotBlog is an uncomfortable place for many new slot car enthusiasts. Real shame.

None of you has asked a question or made a positive comment. None of you know a thing about me or my team. So, maybe you are right...perhaps I am just a fool with a dream...perhaps not. But I DO wonder if I am the only one here spouting puffery?

 

First of all, the credentials of our team:

 

Me- Doug Ritterling (SlotBlog member!)

I am a Industrial Designer with 35+ years of experience, 40+ patents, I have been the Design Director of several major corporations such as Emerson Electric and others. You can look up my portfolio of products online...might be fun for you to throw darts at those multi-$million-selling products.

 

Dr. Contrast

Jim Orr is a well-known Industrial / auto designer who ran the Advanced Concepts branch of General Motors. He was a lead designer of Tasman Motorsports IndyCar Team, and has designed the last 40 years of Corvettes!

 

Landon

Landon is an Industrial Designer with a Master's Degree, who has already taught design at Auburn University. He is 26 years old and loves slot cars.

 

So- we have not won a slot car championship yet, but please give us a little credit for knowing about things like physics, math, engineering and designing great products.

Oh by the way- I knew a nerdy guy by the name of Steve Wozniak when I lived in San Francisco back in the early 80's. He was getting no love with his crazy looking circuit board, but he started his computer company with a friend anyway. Ever heard of Apple Computer?

 

Our Philosophy

Back in the 1970's, I remember watching state-of-the-art RC street racers. I loved the things and have watched their development. Back then, the asphalt racers were a stamped steel chassis with 4 wheels and a motor. Sound familiar? These days, street racers have a full suspension and resemble the real thing. The RC market has absolutely exploded! I can still remember the old guard of RC saying that none of the features were necessary...but I guess they are either dead or have finally embraced the 21st century.

 

During the 2019 pandemic, slot car racing received a gift from heaven with a new influx of young excited racers. These new Slotters love technology and REALISM...this is why RC is huge. Slot car racing has another chance...let's give them products to get excited about!

 

Why are Full Earth Workshop Slot Cars innovative?

There is very little actually new in today's automobiles- virtually everything has been done before. There were electric cars at the turn of the century, turbo charging in the 1930's, disc brakes in the 1940's. Nobody hesitates to call today's cars innovative. Why?

It is the mix of features, created with new materials and technologies. The mantra in automotive design is "We don't steal ideas from competitors...we steal ideas from everywhere!"

 

Full Earth Workshop slot cars use the best ideas of today, revive and refine some old ideas, and introduce a few new ones. We are using new manufacturing technologies and materials which give a distinct advantage over existing products. 1/24 has been largely ignored- we are giving it some love and bring innovation there...we believe more than any single design of the last 50 years!

 

1.Our new slot car chassis increases the amount of adjustability with 1/3 the number of parts! This is because Nylon sintering allows parts which are impossible by traditional means. Competitive slot car companies spend millions on tooling, and must use the tooling for at least 3 years to pay it off. Our technology requires no tooling, so we sink our R&D into engineering, testing, and improving every few months...not years.

 

2. Some ideas are just timeless. Ball bearings are excellent for moving parts- we include them...on EVERY chassis. We also move them to the far edges of the chassis for better alignment. We believe in wheels that can be balanced and adjustments that can be made simply and quickly.

 

3. We use materials which are best for each part. No tooling means we don't worry about draft angles, so more materials are possible. Right now we use sintered Nylon for our front and rear suspensions, Carbon fiber reinforced PETG for chassis pans. They work fantastic. And when we find something better, we will put it immediately to use.

 

4. Our chassis have suspensions! The rear 3 point suspension is simple and works great in 1/32 scale. We decided to use it on ours. Our front suspension is unique. Ackerman steering is not new, but we use reverse-ackerman like F1 cars because it provides advantages on fast twisty tracks. And the great thing? You can use springs or magnets from other companies too. Or, you can also choose NOT to use suspensions at all...on the same chassis.

 

5. We love technology. We race TTS, BRM and ScaleAuto Cars in 1/24. We consider them to be best in the present class. But our cars are different- all of them steer because it is just cool and can provide some demonstrable handling improvements on twisty tracks- we know...we test and time. (TTS has one nice steering chassis) The first two companies are nice and simple, and ScaleAuto is extremely complex. We have consolidated parts and fasteners to reduce the part count and reduce screws and bolts raining on the track during racing. We will also include instructions and tuning tips in our cars...something most others neglect to do.

 

We have been doing the work. Any credible engineer knows that design improves through testing. All our chassis go to commercial tracks for testing. We value the experience and knowledge of the old guard, but also listen to what newcomers find important. We let both use our prototypes, improve them if they can, watch them drive and learn.

 

Our first release will be a steering, 4 wheel suspended, space framed, next generation F1 concept car...using technologies actually being tested now in IndyCar and Formula 1. It is a stealth design with reverse lifting body (which eliminates the need for rear spoiler). The front spoiler is a reverse-dihedral for stability. It has already been seen and juried by one IndyCar team and a top-3 Formula 1 team.

 

So- if our direction sounds exciting to you as it is to us, we would love to have you join us in creating something new and better. If not, wing-cars and jaildoor chassis cars with vacuum-formed bodies will still be around...for a few more years. They will continue to be fast, but sadly, not very realistic, and rather uninteresting to most new slot car enthusiasts.

 

One more thing. I am proud to call industry leaders such as Jim DiFalco (DiFalco Controllers) and Terry Kelly (Kelly Racing) my friends. I show them our new concepts and then listen to their valuable opinions. Both have been rather excited about seeing new things...and positive. They have seen it all and raced it all...but can still see into the future. There is a direct correlation between positive thinking and success.

 

Okay- my rant is complete. You can go back to your discussion. If you need me, I will probably be available on the other slot car forum where they are a bit more positive, open-minded, friendly and welcoming.

 

Doug

[Doug Ritt]

Our latest prototype:

 

[Doug Ritt]

https://youtu.be/M9L...kV8OHEXcKdrHFpx

 

[John Luongo]

Very impressive. very innovative. It would appear to be quite resilient to damage. Well done!

[Bucky]

Honestly, I need some help on figuring out who this product is supposed to appeal to. It doesnt look like a realistic modern car, and anyone with experience in slot cars could point out multiple reasons it wouldnt handle as well as modern commercial 1/24th cars.

Im all for a business succeeding in slot cars, but Im left with some confusion on who the market is for this product. The price point seems reasonable.

[Eddie Fleming]

Obviously (to Me) Doug is an expert at marketing as he is trying so hard to not alienate a segment of his potential market. (sarcasm alert   )
 
I wish them success with the project and hope it brings some new folks to the hobby.

[jimht]

Two things sell slot cars: performance and/or appearance.

 

This car doesn't appear to be "more" than a scaled up 1/32 scale car.

Adding in front steering, a motor pod and new manufacturing techniques doesn't necessarily make it appealing or sellable in my Raceway.

 

Who is the customer for this?

Sometimes a product appears that is aimed at a market that doesn't exist.

 

OTOH, it can be made in low volume cheaply...but, not much money in that.

[Dave Crevie]

"Most innovative slot car in 50 years." A pretty bold statement to describe something from this hobby. The fault is not in the car, but rather the hobby. Slot racing is too fractured, made up of different factions, each with it's own set of rules and specific car design. For that statement to be true, the car would have to turn consistent lap times under two seconds on a king track, yet still be a presentable scale model of a real car. I'll put forth that under the laws of physics, that is not going to happen. Yet, as with several other new offerings, such as the BRM line of 1/24th true scale cars, they will very likely find a "niche" in the hobby. 

 

I'm not going to relate my credentials in manufacturing here. Those who need to know them already do. I'm sorry you saw the "puffery" statement. Put to print, I'm sure, through the frustration of watching a parade of "new" product promising to make you a "champion" slot racer. The precedent is there. But if you don't believe in your own product, who will. Cars, TV's, refridgerators, snake oil. All need to be introduced to the consuming public. And slot racing is a microcosm of that market. The timing is what is critical. 

 

Are we ready for an exact to scale F-1 slot car in 1/24th? Maybe. But they have to be reasonably priced. Not cheap, necessarily, but not as expensive as some of the high scale 1/24th LMP cars. That means low production costs, and as I have said elsewhere, that is not 3-D printing. The process is too slow, and the per-part cost too high. However, great steps are being investigated to bring 3-D generated plastic injection molds about. With the use of metallic media, mold parts can be made that will handle the heat and short recycle times needed to get the production costs down. And with the mold parts being 3-D generated, replacement mold parts can be made reasonably quickly when they become worn out. 

 

https://youtu.be/iZe...FPNiSce3FO7AHoC

 

And "Oh Daddy. They didn't have toys like this when I was a kid!"

 

https://youtu.be/VHY...OE18xEPvx0GZxwu

 

 

[NSwanberg]

"Most innovative slot car in 50 years." A pretty bold statement to describe something from this hobby. The fault is not in the car, but rather the hobby. Slot racing is too fractured, made up of different factions, each with it's own set of rules and specific car design. For that statement to be true, the car would have to turn consistent lap times under two seconds on a king track, yet still be a presentable scale model of a real car. I'll put forth that under the laws of physics, that is not going to happen. Yet, as with several other new offerings, such as the BRM line of 1/24th true scale cars, they will very likely find a "niche" in the hobby.

 
You ought to try keeping up when racing HO slot cars.

[team burrito]

Are we ready for an exact to scale F-1 slot car in 1/24th? Maybe. But they have to be reasonably priced. Not cheap, necessarily, but not as expensive as some of the high scale 1/24th LMP cars. That means low production costs, and as I have said elsewhere, that is not 3-D printing. The process is too slow, and the per-part cost too high. However, great steps are being investigated to bring 3-D generated plastic injection molds about. With the use of metallic media, mold parts can be made that will handle the heat and short recycle times needed to get the production costs down. And with the mold parts being 3-D generated, replacement mold parts can be made reasonably quickly when they become worn out.

 

3D printing is fine for prototyping, but not for high volume production. injection molded parts is fine for 1/32 cars; in fact, they're the best scale slot cars in the world. but it's still comes down to who can set it up the best. 1/24 scale racers are an entirely different niche - the scale is just incidental. we like speed & cost is no object. just look at the controllers we're using. at this point, they're no longer toy cars, but serious race equipment. so to say that this is the most innovative slot car in 50 years, you're going to have to show us. we anxiously await for your response. in the meanwhile, i'm going to scratch build a chassis for a brushless motor - that should be fun.
 

[Doug Ritt]

Hi Russ-

 

Thanks for the very thoughtful and helpful comment. That kind of information is very helpful.

 

I have been concerned about the bad reaction to my video title and your sincere response helps me understand it a bit better. In reading my lengthy response to the early comments, I'm afraid it sounds a bit self righteous and I don't want to be that guy. In the future I will try to have a more developed backbone!

 

My apologies to those who took exception by the video title of "most innovative." Please understand: I just wanted others to be as excited about our project as I am. It is true that in designing a new product, we gather accumulated knowledge and try to add something worthwhile and fun. I have removed the offending video.

 

I am happily surprised and very thankful to the slotblog folks who have DM'ed me and offered to help test and refine the design of this slot car project. I certainly welcome help from anyone who, like me, wants to contribute some excitement to this hobby!

 

All the best-

Doug

[Doug Ritt]

Here is a sneak peak at one of the bodies we are developing. This style open-wheel lifting body has been under development by IndyCar and F1. It is a reverse lifting body which does not require a rear spoiler...all downforce is generated by the shape of the body. The forward airfoil is a reverse dihedral which helps with stability.

 

We also plan historic bodies as well.