41 replies to this topic

[Dave_12]

When do you think we will see brushless motors used in G7 open Wing cars?

[Jim Difalco]

for the 20 people who still compete in G7 wing racing in the US?

[mreibman]

THe 2025 World wing car championships state "no brushless motors" for G7.

[Eddie Fleming]

THe 2025 World wing car championships state "no brushless motors" for G7.

I find that to be a sad state of affaires.

[Mike Patterson]

I find that to be a sad state of affaires.

Why? Why add digital complexity to an analog sport? Just for the sake of appearing "with it"?

 

An example: just about all new vehicles come with a key fob in place of a key. You can replace a key for a couple of bucks. Need a new key fob? More like a couple hundred bucks (and usually more).

 

I guess I'm just an old man, yelling at clouds. You youg'uns do what you want. I want no part of it.

[jimht]

Group 7 was always about speed, never about how we got it.

 

That's why I progressed from train motors to 36d to 16d to A-can to C-can to rare earth cans to rare earth straps.

 

Then, as if single mag strap setups weren't enough of a grenade, the adoption of even more expensive multi-magnet grenades put the last nail in the coffin.

 

Inexpensive brushless motors with ecoms run just fine on DC power, just like all the other motors I've used and that have been obsoleted through the years.

 

The change is already here, get over it.

 

I completely understand that the transition is painful for manufacturers, retailers and customers that have obsolete stuff...it affects me too, but anyone who walks because of this change to the value of their "investment" should have invested in something that has innate value and retains it...stuff you buy by the acre, maybe, that is covered by dirt.

[Dave Crevie]

I don't have any skin in the game for either G7 or brushless, so here is an opinion from someone who is unbiased;

 

Just keep two separate classes, G7 and open brushless. Run them separately at the wing car meets, since the entries in G7 have waned, and see if brushless catches on. If it does, and the entries are larger than G7, let the dice fall as they may.

 

We have dealt with new classes since organized slot racing started. The new classes were either accepted or rejected by the participants, simply by entering those classes, or not. When retro came along, there was no edict passed down from USRA that you had to race retro or not at all. It has become one of the most popular forms of slot racing all on it's own. 

[Brian Czeiner]

I don't have any skin in the game for either G7 or brushless, so here is an opinion from someone who is unbiased;

 

Just keep two separate classes, G7 and open brushless. Run them separately at the wing car meets, since the entries in G7 have waned, and see if brushless catches on. If it does, and the entries are larger than G7, let the dice fall as they may.

 

We have dealt with new classes since organized slot racing started. The new classes were either accepted or rejected by the participants, simply by entering those classes, or not. When retro came along, there was no edict passed down from USRA that you had to race retro or not at all. It has become one of the most popular forms of slot racing all on it's own. 

 

Well said. Isn't growth what we need the most right now?

[Ramcatlarry]

Slot car racing IS a MOTOR sport.  The Wankel (Mazda) and  Turbine (STP & McKee) were turned down after their initial outings.  Separate classes IS the best way to find 'popularity' in sports racing.

 

Brushless does have a future but let us enjoy what we have had for over 60 years as well.

[MSwiss]

I think the G7 argument is pointless.
 

There isn't enough people willing to do it.

 

My guess is because the cars are too fast and they use too much rubber.

 

Whether you have brushed or brushless, you are still going to destroy expensive chassis running 1.6 or 1.7 race laps.

 

Same with using up expensive tires, a pair a heat.

[bbr]

for the 20 people who still compete in G7 wing racing in the US?

 guess you got to wait for those 20 to stop racing to see a change 

[zipper]

Whether you have brushed or brushless, you are still going to destroy expensive chassis running 1.6 or 1.7 race laps.

 

 

Now you tell me... (Going to do it again next December in Germany...)

[bbr]

Posted Today, 04:43 AM

MSwiss, on 14 Oct 2024 - 11:02 AM, said:

Whether you have brushed or brushless, you are still going to destroy expensive chassis running 1.6 or 1.7 race laps.

 

 

Now you tell me...   (Going to do it again next December in Germany...)

 

is EU going to be the leaders in development of brushless in G7?

[zipper]

I doubt it - so far only brushed. But I suppose it will be discussed on next EC race.

[MSwiss]

Now you tell me... (Going to do it again next December in Germany...)

I see a lot of the guys that I race G7 with , still at the races, but running the slower classes, that now run at G7 lap times because of the faster tracks.

 

We race Group F at my track, weekly, and guys are quite happy with that speed.

 

They are still challenged by Black and Purple in the lead-on, get at least 2 races on a set of $14 tires, and never destroy a chassis. 

[Eddie Fleming]

I consider group 7 to be the evolution of RWUB (run what you brung). Going back to the 60s when racing was anything goes as long as it fits in the physical dimensions defined. Why would brushless not be legal?

 

In fact I see group 7 as the home for brushless. The only place brushless fits is open class or a class created just for brushless. Virtually every  class outside Group 7 is defined by motor to one extent or another.

 

But then those 20 guys can play with whatever they want.  

[MSwiss]

I consider group 7 to be the evolution of RWUB (run what you brung). Going back to the 60s when racing was anything goes as long as it fits in the physical dimensions defined. Why would brushless not be legal?

 

In fact I see group 7 as the home for brushless. The only place brushless fits is open class or a class created just for brushless. Virtually every  class outside Group 7 is defined by motor to one extent or another.

 

But then those 20 guys can play with whatever they want.  

I think they are protecting their investment.

 

Maybe not a bad idea with so few people doing it.

[jimht]

I think they are protecting their investment.

 

Maybe not a bad idea with so few people doing it.

As long as your ex boss keeps providing the necessities I doubt that the couple of dozen diehards will give up.

 

OTOH, there are so few tracks available that don't destroy aluminum chassis and cobalt grenades that it's likely the tracks themselves will disappear first.

[Archie King]

When do you think we will see brushless motors used in G7 open Wing cars?

Probably never. I haven't seen a brushless turd run anywhere near what the current open cars run. And I have a feeling they never will

[bbr]

Probably never. I haven't seen a brushless turd run anywhere near what the current open cars run. And I have a feeling they never will

 

so why nerf the BL in G7???  lol

[Archie King]

 

so why nerf the BL in G7???  lol

For the exact same reason the other classes aren't allowed. It will be a moving chicane!!

[bbr]

hmm,,, 1.7s (BL) race pace not fast enough for G7?

[Ken Lenz]

hmm,,, 1.7s (BL) race pace not fast enough for G7?

They would have to have a brushless wing car before they would know.  Most of the noise against brushless is made by those who do not have a brushless car.

[Archie King]

hmm,,, 1.7s (BL) race pace not fast enough for G7?

Seeing how the fastest BL car I have seen in a wing car was 2.90. The king track with its long straights isnt a place the low rpm BL motors can shine. Short straights and lots of turns are where they work.


Grab the controller and go wot at the lead on and the BL car is done accelerating by greens controller panel. Three different guys attempting to test a BL wing car was an absolute joke. That $300 motor/controller wouldnt even run with the $20 motor in our group f cars.

However, I will allow any BL powered wing car at a wing race if it can run competitively. Currently, they arent even close. At least what I have seen.

[Archie King]

They would have to have a brushless wing car before they would know.  Most of the noise against brushless is made by those who do not have a brushless car.

Whenever you are ready. March Barnburner and May worlds in Port Jeff. USRA nats in August in virgina. I will expect to see your name in a drivers list.

All of the guys that race brushless cars havent pulled the trigger on a wing car in 30 years. I suppose most of those guys race retro now and just too lazy to build motors and test.