34 replies to this topic

[Hot Slots]

I am confused here. Are you guys telling me that a brushless motor, or a sealed Chinese unit can beat something like a Kofford G12 motor

Yes

[Mudhen]

Okay then, I guess that  I'll search around and try to ind a few dinosaurs.

[Mudhen]

I am confused here. Are you guys telling me that a brushless motor, or a sealed Chinese unit can beat something like a Kofford G12 motor

Yes

Not trying to be insulting here, but is there head to head proof of this? I mean, we're talking about a balanced, blueprinted motor with a high amp draw, and a powerful armature, versus a sealed mass produced unit.. It just seems illogical to me, because the next step up from x-12 is the Cobalt classes and strap motors,and there is no way that a sealed motor can run against one that is capable of doing a 1.283 lap on a Blue King.

[MSwiss]

About 3 years ago we had a wing race and I put together one of my CR 106 Stage 6's in a somewhat older Wing car and practiced with it pre-race.

 

When one of the  G12 racers had the endbell bushing melt out of his endbell in the first heat, I lent him the car and he ran fast time of almost every heat against a few racers with top notch G12 cars and motors.

 

The 106 was a predecessor of the 206 and maybe just a hair slower.

 

And of course sealed motors aren't running 1.2 laps.

 

A G12 with ceramic mags and a G7 open qualifying motor are obviously 2 different things.

[Bill Seitz]

For Frank's enlightenment, the latest crop of Chinese crimped endbell motors are running winds that are more powerful than G12. I still prefer a C-can as a rebuildable, serviceable motor, but in terms of performance, they've come a long way. I don't know if Mike has improved the CR206 since an early one I had, but at the time there were even faster motors than the CR206. The top motors in this class can turn 80K rpm, and with solid neo magnets, have greater torque than the ceramic mag C-can. ProSlot has an interesting line of Velociraptor drag motors in the smaller "F" can with a removable endbell and using solid neo magnets.  Arm winds up to those used in G7 motors are available. I don't know how all of these would fair in circuit track use, but I've experimented with the VX motor with a 30T26 arm, and it seems to survive. ProSlot introduced the $35 "Razorback" motor with the hottest wind Chinese arm I've seen at 30T28, and I've used this one on circuit track, too. I think it will easily outclass a G12. Motor development hasn't been stagnant.

 

I'm not quite as old as Mr. Honeycutt, but I do remember some of those re-purposed motors, though I missed the early days of making motors from scratch. Those I remember were assembled from various available parts, though sometimes heavily modified. I don't think that's too far from modern 'motor building', though the components to do the job are more readily available off the shelf from companies specializing in that. Sure, we can buy a complete, ready-to-race motor from somebody, but you could back in those early days, too. So, I'd have to disagree that we no longer have 'motor building', or that re-purposing a production brushless motor for a slot car is any more 'motor building' than that. Perhaps it's a matter of definition.

[Samiam]

Insulting motors ? 

 

I didn't know they had feelings.     

[Pappy]

 

I think part of that is that they launch so slowly compared to brushed motors, running similar ET's, one would have to adjust their brain to cut good lights, and certainly couldn't enter a mixed bag of cars in a race.

 

Mike, I can see where they wouldn't be the choice for drag racing but after they launch they are little rockets. We ran a brushless motor in the Michigan 24 race last year and it was as fast at the end of the race as it was at the beginning of the race. We were the only team that ran 400 laps in one heat and it was our last heat of the race. We finished second which was our best finish ever, the home track team (Clover Leaf) won.

 

One of the reasons people don't run them is they can't figure out how to mount them in a car (I'm talking 1//32 scale plastic chassis cars here). We solved that problem, I make an adapter on my CNC router that makes it easy to mount them. I also figured out that they will fit into the can of a 130 or 180 motor so we 3D print the cans, screw the motor to my adapter and snap the adapter in the end of the can. Now the motor fits a 1/32 scale just like a 130 or 180 motor does.

 

We ran a DoSlot 2000 motor and it has instant acceleration. We tried to run a 3000 but couldn't tame it down enough. I did set a new track record on my track with a 3000 by 2/10 of a second but that was me on my track but I know I couldn't have handled it on the 24 hour track and neither could my teammates. Another problem is the circuit boards at low speed (the launch). DoSlot has come up with a circuit board that makes the motor drive like a regular brushed motor at slow speeds.

 

I think our team has good chance of winning the 24 hour race in April of 2025 with the new circuit board. I'm not on the team this year for health reasons but I'm helping the team anyway I can. We also figured out the secret to running fast is 70% the tires, so I'm working on figuring out the best silicone tire/wheel combination.

 

Ken Lenz, I see where you are in Hudsonville, Michigan. The Michigan 24 in just south of Fenton, Michigan on Clyde Rd., it's not that far from you. You might want to make a trip to check it out. Also, the best motor I ever had back in about 66-67 was a Lenz 289. 

[Bags]

Not trying to be insulting here, but is there head to head proof of this? I mean, we're talking about a balanced, blueprinted motor with a high amp draw, and a powerful armature, versus a sealed mass produced unit.. It just seems illogical to me, because the next step up from x-12 is the Cobalt classes and strap motors,and there is no way that a sealed motor can run against one that is capable of doing a 1.283 lap on a Blue King.

These are powered by an 1105 6000kv brushless Outrunner motor, they run on Gerdings #11 king in Vero beach Florida.

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[Bags]

Mike there is a new esc out for drag racing now.

 

it is faster than the Talon25 from Castle Creations by a bunch like .2 over all in ET.

 

It makes the cars leave the line a lot quicker in the 60’ times.

I built a 55 gram F/C and put the new esc in it with a 1207 6000kv Outrunner motor.

I put the new esc in these cars that used to run in the .6’s now they run .5’s

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[Tom Eatherly]

Okay then, I guess that  I'll search around and try to ind a few dinosaurs.

PM sent.