146 replies to this topic

[Pablo]

Finished February 2009:

 

 

Here's where it all started:

My research says the Ferrari 312 V12, #6, was driven to victory by John Surtees in the Formula One Grand Prix, Spa-Francorchamps, Belgium, June 12, 1966. I was 11 years old at the time.
I think a 13D motor and circlip bracket will be a perfect fit for the body.

 

[havlicek]

Very cool, Pablo! It should be a fun project... go for it!

[Tex]

Ah yes, the stuff "Grand Prix" was made of!

Go for it, Pablo!

[munter]

Pablo, you sound like a true scratchbuilder.

Rewinding the 13D motor is puzzling though, from memory they were never much of a performer.

Love that Ferrari body.

[stoo23]

Yes... that will definitely need a chassis that eees not some steeenkin' keeet!!!

Rewinding the 13D motor is puzzling though, from memory they were never much of a performer.

Gee I dunno... some of the 'Poms' used to get those suckers to go real well, mind you also with a fair bit of modification!!!

[don.siegel]

Yep, I've seen a couple of the English and Italian guys get their 13Ds running well, but I've never been able to! I think it's mostly a question of improving the magnet field one way or the other. Or even using one of the "peanut" motors that the Brits used in the early '80s, with cobalt magnets (predecessor of the strap motor).

Or you could probably fit a 16D in that shell, which would be the easy way out! If you use the 13D, keep it light!

Don

[Hworth08]

Nice project. It might be a good idea to use a 16D motor while building the frame in case the 13 is a dud. You'll give up a bit on center of gravity but have a lot more motor choice if the 13 doesn't work out.

I'll be watchin' so get started!

[Prof. Fate]

Hi,

Opening day, I sat through the movie "Grand Prix" from the 11 AM showing until closing late at night!

I was really excited when the body came out. I still have the car I built under it. I was a successful local pro car until the bodies got wider. The chassis was four rails of .047" with a sheet center section, and a Hemi. The Hemi evolved into a frankenmotor with Hemi magnets in a 16D can and various endbells. I keep the car today.

When the wider bodies came out, the local tracks had lots of this body as spare and sold them for 25 cents apiece. I went around to the local raceways and bought all they have. Still have a few.

The 13UO the stock wind was soemthing like 140t of 34 wire. The magnets are so poor that anything hotter will melt the endbell. There are solutions, but that is more work than I bothered with at the time. There is more than enough room here for a Russkit 23 or something.

Fate

[Pablo]

I don't really intend for the motor to be a rocket. I'll just get it running cool and safe, the way it was intended.

[don.siegel]

Good attitude, Pablo - be interested to see what you come up with. Still, after a lap or two on a long track, you might want to reconsider that 16D....

If you go the lightweight route, there was an article in a '60s Model Cars magazine about a 1/32 F1 car with a 13D motor that was hyper-lightened and weighed something like one ounce...

Don

[TSR]

PdL where are you in my time of need?

I am here.
1/ The Du-Bro body of this car is a rather poor model of the real thing. I would recommend that you shelf this one and instead acquire the much-better model made by Pactra and beautifully reproduced by Electric Dreams:



It captures oh so much better the low-line looks of the beautiful original.

2/ The Pactra body offers much more room to fit a Mabuchi FT16D motor, that will in any case be a lot better than the FT13UO that never was that good to begin with. In case you wish to retain the 13UO, the best improvement possible is to switch the magnets from the poor original units to the TSR "D3" mags from a worn out D3 motor. I did this for my Turin meet Monogram Lotus and the performance improvement was quite spectacular, to the point where the car was too fast for its poor handling. The mags will require a light sanding top and bottom to fit. The stock arm will be fine but a rewound Tradeship or French Motor Co 16D or even a Parma 16D arm would be a noticeable improvement. You will need to bullet-proof the endbell.

3/ This Pactra Ferrari body was used by the Cukras-Steube team that won the first ever East-West professional slot car race in Memphis, TN, in 1967, so a Cukras frame copy appears to be in order, and you have shown that this would be a breeze for you to make a nice copy or one inspired by it.

How's that Pablo?

[Pablo]

Thanks Philippe !!!

I think I'll "build what I got" and save the ED Pactra/Cukras project for another day.

TSR mags, huh ? Let me open up this little guy and see what's happening inside........

[TSR]

The mags are glued in the TSR cans so you will need to slightly deform the can to unstick them.

[Pablo]

Pretty close, Rocky, it was approx. 130 turns of .0065 wire, don't know what guage that is.

Are Falcon 7 mags same size as TSR D3? I got a set of F7 mags's here.

Oh my, the F7 endbell fits right on the 13uo can. How about a F7 mags/comm/endbell using a 13uo stack/can ?

Let me go wet sand these mags

[Bill from NH]

Are Falcon 7 mags same size as TSR D3? I got a set of F7 mags's here.

Oh my, the F7 endbell fits right on the 13uo can. How about a F7 mags/comm/endbell using a 13uo stack/can ?

Yes, I believe the mags are the same. The F7 endbell has brushes 90 degrees out of phase with what the 13D needs. Since you are rewinding it, you could retime it too.

[Jairus]

Contact Havlicek for a better arm for that 13D....

[TSR]

Oh my, the F7 endbell fits right on the 13uo can.

You must have a different can because I have to remove about 25 thousands off the TSR mags to fit in the old Monogram can... are we talking Mabuchi 13UO copies by Scalex or SCX here?

[Pablo]

I'm not sure about the motor, I just assumed it was a 13 something. The can end bearing says "Mabuchi, Japan", the endbell is black, and the comm is green and measures .163 OD. Timing was neutral, mags were painted white and blue, respectively. Arm OD was .513 and mag ID was .563

I totally forgot the fact the F7 timing is funky, so forget my bright ideas about using the F7 endbell.

The magnets will work no problemo. Thanks Dok.

[TSR]

I totally forgot the fact the F7 timing is funky, so forget my bright ideas about using the F7 endbell.

Not if you use the F7 armature...

[Pablo]

Hmmm let me try that, perhaps the ultimate solution.

[havlicek]

Pablo,

That's some skinny wire in there. If it's .0065" it's somewhere around #34 awg if I'm reading the conversion table right...angel hair With some decent magnets in there and protecting the endbell, it might be a really cool thing to give the arm a medium-spicy wind. I doubt you'll run into many of those motors in running condition...cool project!

-john

[munter]

Pablo,
Keep it how you want it,the build that is.
Here in NZ we sometimes are forced to "use what we got" because what we want is many thousands of km's away.

I wonder how many of you gents are familiar with some of the longcan motors available in the 1/32 rtr scene.
They are like a stretched falcon.
Some by Slotit and NSR are quite good.
You can have high torque and low revs or hightorque and high revs.
Check out the NSR king range of motors esp. NSR 3016 46000rpm 310 gc-m.
And it's quite cheap too.

They would suit the 1/24 F1 build quite well in my opinion.

John

[stoo23]

Yes,... I agree, The AvantSlot Orange Motor is Fantastic.

A Long Can, Long Stack, Lovely Smooooth Torque and Revs as Well !!

I must admit I have thought it Would make a Good Motor for F1's.

[Horsepower]

I don't see why some of the bullet proofing endbell hardware couldn't fit on the 13D endbell with some minor filing.Also, spring post covers and some metal brush housings should keep it from melting. I remember the magazines recommending the stock arm be upgraded to a Classic 6 volt arm, or even one of Classic's 3 volts. A little epoxy and some razor blades to balance it and......

[John Secchi]

Been using the later [the earlier ones are longer] SCX magnets which fit straight into the Johnson 13 [Scalex] cans without any mods.
Using standard endbell/brushes and springs i have wound arms [zero or just slight directional timing] from 150 x 38 swg [0.15mm] to 100 x 36swg [0.20] without any problems at all, very reliable.
For the Scalex type cars 130 x 38 swg [0.17mm] is very good indeed, have one in an old Monogram 1/32 Ferrari 158 and in a Scalextric Ferrari 312 F1 which i used at the last Turin meeting which was very quick!
Nothing better than getting a 13UO to go!
[oneofwos]