107 replies to this topic

[Jean-Michel Piot]

This kind of extended arm technique was probably used by the modeler who created the genuine Cox pilot for this 30/40 model... (not my Fault Dokk ...I did not change the body of the pilots).

By the way, this year at the Retromobile show in Paris, there was a Lotus 30 . Not so frequent to see one.

[don.siegel]

But which one was that Jean-Michel? I've been meaning to ask you, since I didn't recognize that model with the horizontal exhausts (I assume that's the one you were referring to - and if you have a photo could you post it, pretty please?)

Mercy Buckets,
Don

[Jean-Michel Piot]

Yes Don, it's the one with non standard parts like the wheels and horizontal exhaust.

The color of the main frame is also inaccurate. It should be medium grey.

Had no time to check-out the number of the chassis.

Here are some pictures. (That day I had the suitable suit ... bought at the Lotus shop in the Lotus factory of Ethel, which factory I visited with other members of the "Club Lotus France").







There's also a non standard huge bulb for the hydraulic system of pedals (or the driver was driving with palms).

Note the genuine shape of gear linkage, with a little longer than usual gear lever.

[Jairus]

Looks like they used Russkit wheel nut/spinners too....


Beautiful work J-M. You moved the bar up yet again...

(Until my Ferrari is done )

[strummer]

As usual, very late to the party.  

 

Question: not so much about the model, but the prototype.

 

We've all read the quip about the Lotus 40 being the "30 with 10 more problems", yet...

 

... in the 1965 Times Riverside 200, Hap Sharp won in the Chaparral, and in second place was Jimmy Clark...in a Lotus 40.

 

So I guess in the right hands, it didn't totally suck, right?  Or was that the best it ever did?

 

Mark in Oregon

[Alan Dodson]

 Mark, in 1965 Jimmy Clark was the best driver in the world, winning both the Indy 500 and the F1 championship that year. Also that particular race had a lot of retirements of cars capable of winning the race. IMO, Jimmy Clark finished second in spite of the Lotus 40, not because of it. The Chaparral on the other hand was the dominant sports racing car of 1964 & 65, in America at least.

[strummer]

True dat.

 

I watched a couple of old (obviously!)  Dave Despain shows about the Riverside races in 1963 then '65. Good stuff.

 

I was struck by how many different entries there were: both in car types and engines.

 

Another thing was how in those 2 years so much had changed, as far as car design. The '63 cars looked almost like throwbacks to the '50s: by '65 the cars were starting to look like they "belonged" in the decade.

 

I then watched a race from 1967 and the cars were looking like they would going into the 70s...

 

The evolution of racing cars seemed to be not all that different from the music of the time...things were changing very quickly!

 

Okay, back to Cox models... 

 

Mark in Oregon

[Martin]

Compare that to the development of the slot car and you will see why the slot car manufactures got left on the self. Literally.

I bought those kit cars in 67 and by 68 it was all scratch built, just to keep up on the track.

The fast development and construction is what attracted me to the sport. 

Now we build kit cars as a reminder of those simpler times.

[MattD]

From my limited knowledge of the Canam years.

 

In the Canam days there were many cars, but only a few that were contenders.    There was a big difference in money and engineering levels.    Chaps were superb designs and my all time favorites, but they were so innovative that most races they didn't hold up.    Mclaren, no quite so innovative, just solid proven designs were competitive most every race.    Both these builders received back door help from Chevrolet.

 

I always felt if the Chaps had continued with the original Chap 2 design and not gotten into wings and such, they could have won more races.    Jim Hall was so excited about aero that he couldn't help thinking outside the box.     The 2-2C was the most successful of his cars.     When Jim came to Indy he was immediately successful because he viewed under car aero as important as what was on top.   

 

I take exception to Jim Clark being the best driver in the world.   I would always put AJ there,  ,    Mario if he was active at that time and Big Dan.   I think  those guys were the top 4 in that era.      Hard to ever pick the best, but it is much easier just to mention all the guys that  should be in that discussion.   

 

I loved the Chap cars back in 64/65

[Martin]

Love your 2D Matt.

You made me think of this car as being the best of both worlds.McLaren and Chaparral.

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[strummer]

You know Matt, your comment reminded me of something I thought of while watching those videos.

The incredible line up of drivers: from Foyt and Gurney to McClaren and Jones and Ward and Clark and on and on...

Maybe it's because I'm old, but I feel that era in racing may have had the best of the best; all at the same time. You know, like the baseball players of that time...

Mark in Oregon

[Dave Crevie]

Don't have to preach to me. The Canadian-American Challenge Cup was the best racing series that ever was or ever will be.

 

By the way, a much modified Lotus 40 ran in the Can-Am series, re-named the Cherokee. Was mostly a mid-pack finisher.

[Martin]

Dave are you thinking of this car? PAM

 

The PAM-Chevy was the former Jim Clark Lotus 30 that Jimmy drove at the 1964 Times Grand Prix. After it was sold and its body severely damaged, it was rebuilt as the PAM-Chevy and was a truly horrible mess of a racing car. It really raced one, scaring Dick Guldstrand, and it did not start at that Riverside race where the picture was taken. Mechanical or terror? I will have to ask Dick next time we meet...
 

Quote

Guldstrand was a non-starter in this Lotus 30-based Special. Two weeks previous he was credited with 17th place in the second heat of the Laguna Seca Can-Am.
 
From Howard Macken:
"I just found out about this car the other day, it was called PAM. It is a rebodied Lotus 30, driven by Dick Guildstrand. This photo was also shot at practice. Shortly after I took this it went out and destroyed itself, never to be seen again. I dont know any other details, but I have never seen another photo of this car."

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[slotbaker]

Boy, this thread has gone from J-M's great Lotus tutorial to something quite different.

 

I realise how threads drift, but this is becoming a bit much, don't you think??

 

Don't get me wrong, there is quite a lot of great stuff in the hi-jack, but it's not all related to the topic.

ie "Cox Lotus 30 and Lotus 40"

 

How about kicking off a new thread from about post #80?

 

[strummer]

You're right Steve, my bad. I just happened upon this thread today and posed the question/comment here.

 

As the author of post #80, I take full responsibility...although this discussion had been dormant since February of 2009, so it's been awhile. 

 

It was certainly not my intention in the least to detract from J-M's great work.    He is mainly responsible for my getting interested in 1/24 scale.

 

At least I wrapped up my following post (#82) by writing "Okay, back to Cox models..."    

 

Mark in Oregon

[Martin]

Good call Steve, good idea. My bad too.

[MattD]

I'll take blame, I am good at adding my 2 cents where it isn't needed.     I just like expanding on info in a lot of threads.   I will try harder to keep my input strictly to the subject and not add extra info.

[Rotorranch]

I always enjoy the extra info and thread drift!   

 

Rotor

[MattD]

Jeff, I agree, but evidently other people don't.     Maybe we should start a thread that is about wandering!   Everybody could feel free to post anything they want and the thread can go wherever it leads with no limits.

[Martin]

WHAT no limits, that's crazy talk.

[strummer]

If the moderators want to, they certainly should...starting as you say, with post #80. 

 

Mark in Oregon

[Dave Crevie]

Martin; Nope. The Cherokee retained the body and basic chassis of the 40. There is a good picture of it, along with history in Pete Lyon's Can-Am book.

The car was painted white while running in that series.  

[Martin]

Help me out here Dave. I have got the book in front of me and cannot find the pic.No mention in the index. Can you give me a page number ?

[Rotorranch]

Bob Challman's Cherokee.

 

Rotor

 

[Martin]

Thanks Jeff, is that pic in the Pete Lyon's Can-Am book?