60 replies to this topic

[mazur50]

I know of two controllers doing this without any problems.

[Dan Ruddock]

How does not one single failure make it a good idea?

Dan

[mazur50]

How does not one single failure make it a good idea? Dan

Dan I noticed that you get really edgy when answering controller questions. I am just saying that i have not seen any problems with the micro controllers in slot controllers yet. If you have the answer to the question you are asking why are you looking to me to answer it for you.

I don't see a problem with a micro controller sampling the base voltage to turn the brakes on or off. as long as the micro controller is protected. Is there more things that can go wrong with the controller? Yes. But the options that the micro controller brings is endless and brake profiles that can be created, IE jaygee's Brake n' Release, PWM, and on and on. What ever you want to code up.

With micro controller controller can be made for lower cost. I know my PWM Brake setup cost me less then any omite 2-3ohm brake. and the setup is not going to fad as the pot gets dirty, and the entire design has less residence then the wire used in most controllers with out the brake pot in the loop.

and if you don't want the micro controller to sample the base voltage. just isolate the brake all together. it just adds one more wire in the handle. Why would you use a micro switch. your just adding more moving parts to go bad and are delaying the brake reaction to the reaction of the switch.

[Dan Ruddock]

Dan I noticed that you get really edgy when answering controller questions. I am just saying that i have not seen any problems with the micro controllers in slot controllers yet. If you have the answer to the question you are asking why are you looking to me to answer it for you.

I don't see a problem with a micro controller sampling the base voltage to turn the brakes on or off. as long as the micro controller is protected. Is there more things that can go wrong with the controller? Yes. But the options that the micro controller brings is endless and brake profiles that can be created, IE jaygee's Brake n' Release, PWM, and on and on. What ever you want to code up.

With micro controller controller can be made for lower cost. I know my PWM Brake setup cost me less then any omite 2-3ohm brake. and the setup is not going to fad as the pot gets dirty, and the entire design has less residence then the wire used in most controllers with out the brake pot in the loop.

and if you don't want the micro controller to sample the base voltage. just isolate the brake all together. it just adds one more wire in the handle. Why would you use a micro switch. your just adding more moving parts to go bad and are delaying the brake reaction to the reaction of the switch.

Just trying to get people to think. There is always a pro and con to each way of doing things. My design philosophy has always been unless there is a big advantage to the added complexity of a design it's not worth doing because more often then not it will bite you in the ***. A micro controller will never go bad if it's not there. Difalco agrees with me and so do many end users.

Dan

[Guillermo Suar]

I found this some years ago. A true wiperless controller. I emailed them and they answer that it wasn't for sale yet. The web page is still there but I think they never got to build it at a commercial scale. Just a prototype. Very interesting approach though.

http://www.rocketmec.../applets/v1.pdf

[Dan Ruddock]

I found this some years ago. A true wiperless controller. I emailed them and they answer that it wasn't for sale yet. The web page is still there but I think they never got to build it at a commercial scale. Just a prototype. Very interesting approach though.

http://www.rocketmec.../applets/v1.pdf

After a quick scan through the PDF I can see why it never went anywhere. It is a chalkboard design most likely done by an engineer and not a slot racer.

[Guillermo Suar]

I am a slot car racer, and also an engineer. I can see that the project has everything you don't like in a controller (microprocessor, software controlled, advanced electronics, etc), but I see nothing to disqualify it so quickly.

[Dan Ruddock]

I am a slot car racer, and also an engineer. I can see that the project has everything you don't like in a controller (microprocessor, software controlled, advanced electronics, etc), but I see nothing to disqualify it so quickly.

Unless you are talking about R/C cars, PWM controllers create more problems than they solve. A good design should be application driven. Seventeen years ago in the design process I had some electrical engineers helping me with some aspects of my controller. One wanted me to do a PWM and my response was, "That's very complex for something that does not solve any real problems".

Dan

[Guillermo Suar]

I can tell you at least two problems that PWM solves, but I guess you already know this.

1 - Almost no heat generation. Eliminates the need of a big heat sink.

2 - No need of a blast relay.

There a probably a list of bad things you can write in reply. We will never agree on this point I guess

I'm not a fan of PWM controllers. I don' even like them, but I'm open minded and don't believe I own the truth. I have tried almost every controller out there, including yours, and I've made my choice based in results and how I feel using it. Of course reliability is a main point to consider.

[Dan Ruddock]

Difalco and myself both produce controllers without a relay. In the slower non-wing classes they are not necessary. We both just use the trigger contacts for full power bypassing the transistors. Running a controller 100% of the time on any kind transistor is a bad idea. Short circuits are a fact of life and a relay or trigger contacts handle a short much better than a semiconductor.

I have done the destructive testing with a 600 amp battery. Transistors fry instantly whereas a relay will buzz its contacts and in time will melt them but will last much longer than a transistor (this is why I tell people back out of the trigger until you find out what's wrong).

I have NEVER had one controller fail directly from overheating; yes, some have failed from an overheat when something else went wrong, indirectly melting the transistors, and that is very rare.

Do you want a slot motor running on a high frequency filtered pulse (no filter is perfect)? I don't. Yes with R/C cars a PWM is the only way to go because of battery life. For slots it is a complete waste of time.

Dan

[Guillermo Suar]

Running a controller 100% of the time on any kind transistor is a bad idea. Short circuits are a fact of life and a relay or trigger contacts handle a short much better than a semiconductor.

And you just forgot to say that you need that contact, because of the voltage drop in the transistor, or you will never get full power.

I guess you missed the part where I said I'm not a fan of PWM controllers. But I don't believe that just because I don't like them, they are all trash. There is a post about a Powerhouse module when I said I own one of those. And I don't use it.

I've used it with G12 motors and the comms didn't blow up or get black as some people thinks it does. I've seen the output with a scope, and it works at a 4 KHz frequency. I wouldn't call that "high frequency".

Transistor controllers are pretty much the same and their electronics have not changed in many years. I like when someone comes out with a innovative idea and I'm not eager to let them down just because its different of what I do.

I think this discussion is closed and there is nothing else to say. Both of us have put our opinions and I don't believe we are going to change it or convince the other.

By the way, this is just an opinion exchange. Nothing personal here. I think your controller are great. I've tried them and they are very smooth and they have a solid construction. I've also tried several Difalco, Third Eye, Jaygee (transistor and PWM modules), Carsteen, Cidex (Euro and the other), Powerhouse, CVSC, etc., etc., and even though all are good controllers, there will be one that is best for you and is a better fit for your driving style and the classes you race.