71 replies to this topic

[Prof. Fate]

Hi.

In the day, a lot of us assembled our arms out of raw materials. Just plates, com, shaft, insulators. For me it was an excuse to dial in stack length for different tracks.

I think I mentioned it somewhere. Rumor had it that Steube's dad was the guy who started hogging out the webs on the stack to reduce eddy currents and and get more wire.

In the day, for instance, a stock web wouldn't let you get more than 60 or 65t of 30 wire. With a bit of grinding, 72 turns. Not important with a 30, but REALLY important on a 25!

Modern webs are all thinner than then as well as being more commonly .007 thick instead of .014.

Fate

[TSR]

Rumor had it that Steube's dad was the guy who started hogging out the webs on the stack to reduce eddy currents and and get more wire.

The rumors were just that. It DID amuse Bill quite abit however... Bill did a lot of work on those arms, but never got to that point of weakening an already pretty thin web.
Bill was simply replacing the shafts with drill blanks, using less plates, coating them with serious hi-temp epoxy and winding very "clean". We have plenty of those early 1966-67 arms from the Old Man to be sure of that. Here is one from 1967:

[don.siegel]

So, if you have plenty, seems you could distribute a few to us needy folks out in the Provinces, non? Don't French teachers tell you that at school, that you're supposed to share the bon-bons?

More seriously, since you talked to Bill, maybe you could give us a short tutorial on what Steube motors had that the others didn't at the time - unless of course it was just plain old good craftsmanship...

Don

PS: all the NOS Loctite tubes I've seen are red, if that helps!

[TSR]

They are no longer mine to give away, but all enthusiasts will be able to share their sight once the new museum is complete. A trip in the new 800-passenger Airbus should make it dirt-cheap to get there, we can even send a limo to the airport.

Bill did pretty much the same thing as everyone then, selecting the best of what was available and adding fine craftsmanship to it. The early Mabuchi rewinds were just that, dewound Mabuchi or Hemi blanks, sometimes putting a new better comm (Tradeship, then Kirkwood), and winding as much wire as possible of the fattest gauge available. Then the shafts were changed from toy steel to drill blanks, the end bells were properly centered, the Mabuchi mags were replaced by the better Igarashi, then "broken" magnets, then ARCO or Mura Magnum 44 or 88, then Thorp and Champion introduced the thinner arm laminations, then Mura the green bubblegum epoxy, etc.
Bill's motors were not really that much faster than many but were consistent and reliable. So one could count on winning races if the car was good in the chassis and aero department and if the finger at the other end was actually attached to the brain.

Thing is, the old mags never revealed much of what was really going on except for speculation and hearsay. By the methodical discovery process we began in accumulating this awsome collection, we can now see what really happened and how things were done.

[Hworth08]

What was the Igarshi magnet? Maybe the Pactra Hemi magnet? Also did Mabuchi use the Hemi magnets in the 16D Ball Bearing? Inquiring minds need to know

[GT40]

To digress a moment, I have a very clear memory around '69-71 of Mura B motors - probably NCC20 - with square can holes and 36D brushes.

Now, I do recall that at some point the hot tip was to replace 16D holders and brushes with 36D hoods and brushes. I remember doing that myself. I can't swear I bought Mura B cans with 36D brushes from the factory, but it sure seems like it.

Anyhow, what with the elephant ears, comm coolers, shunt wires, double and triple lead wires, and all that other crazy stuff we were doing back then, who knows?

[One_Track_Mind]

Hello, everyone,

Got a few more motors that would like to be indentify, along with a couple of chassis.

First up: motor ID.







Notice the grinding of stacks for balance:



Next up: motor ID.







This motor also has same type of balance grinding:



Next up: motor and chassis ID. Was this chassis made anytime after 1969?

Notice grey endbell & NCC group12 sticker.





Next up: motor and chassis ID.



Can you see me now? just thought this was neat how it turned out, don't have any clue where blue come from?



Never have I seen a plastic drop arm?





Thank you in advance for all the help.

[Horsepower]

Hi Brian! I'm sure the first is a 26D Champion or equivalent that looks rewound and balanced by hand. The second looks like a Champion 507, rewound and balanced by hand also. These came in kits that you could wind the motor yourself. The bottom chassis is the MPC Dyno-can chassis that came in the Ford J car and I think two other bodies also. It was one of the last slot cars I raced before I gave it to my cousin in 1969. He has since died and I have no idea what happened to the car and MRC controller I gave him. I sure wish I would have kept it, as it was a gift from my parents for Christmas.
By the way, the nylon drop arm seems to hold up pretty well, but I picked up a used one and the drop arm springs seem to go soft.
I don't know about the two-hole can, sorry. :cry:

[edworth]

Brian,
The nylon pickup in the MPC was found on occasion with a 'momentum brake' attachment. It would attach in the holes near the swing arm pivot point, a string would wrap the front axle. The brake was applied by a swinging weight.

[One_Track_Mind]

Edworth wrote:

The nylon pickup in the MPC was found on occasion with a 'momentum brake' attachment. It would attach in the holes near the swing arm pivot point, a string would wrap the front axle. The brake was applied by a swinging weight.

:shock: Wow, Ed that brake sounds like a lot of troubles? Thanks for the info, would like to at least see one?!

My friend asked me to help him identify an older Champion motor (at least I think it is?)

Anyone happen to know what version motor this would be? Couple of things I did notice: the arm has no balancing marks of any kind and it has the post protectors installed.







Thank You.

[TSR]

Brian,
It's a "Mismatch 517". Someone made this thing from parts from various origins and time periods.
The can is that of a late-production chrome can originally used on the 517, that someone butchered up a bit in a vain attempt to retain the end bell. By 1969, Champion was fitting this less expensive bronze bushing to the remaining obsolete stock so as to sell these motors in cheap RTR cars. The end bell belongs to a 1971 Champion production motor using the black can, and this is the infamous "bad" end bell with the bearing soldered in the bolt-on bearing plate. The arm appears to be an early something with Mabuchi FT16 blanks. Spring protectors and springs are the correct ones for the end bell.
Regards,

[One_Track_Mind]

Thank You,Philippe .......looks like I'm gonna be the bearer of bad news today..

[TSR]

Sorry... 9 times out of 10, truth really hurts... :|

[John Secchi]

Hi Aii
This is possibly all wrong but someone in the UK [i think Ian Fisher] told me that Champion or the UK importer at the time centre punched the cans this way so the later type endbells could be fitted as without the dimples the can dimentions were greater than the later endbells.
[oneofwos]

[edworth]

Brian,

Wow, Ed that brake sounds like a lot of troubles? Thanks for the info, would like to at least see one?!

Ask and ye shall find:



It seems like it would work reasonably well, though I have no experiecne with one. The wrapping on the axle needs to be such that it doesn't self-tighten. The picture DOES NOT show it wound correctly.

[Horsepower]

Phillipe- Has anyone that you know ever used this "swinging" setup to move a spoiler, like on the Chaparral or the Classic :?: Stinger?

[TSR]

Sure! It worked much better at it too... check the Monogram Chaparral 2D, it had a pendulum system doing exactly that. A simple steel bolt and brass nut provided the necessary mass. Kind of worked...

The MPC pendulum brake was or course a bad joke. However, a few years after that mechanical disaster was devised by some illuminated engineer, a genuine PRO RACER decided to try it again. Ed Lewis, then at Team Champion, fabricated an angle-winder racing car in which a brass plate weight slided along the chassis main rails. Under acceleration, it would increase traction for the rear tires, under braking, it would apply more weight to the nose, increasing down force there.

What do you think happened?

Well, EXACTLY the same thing that happened on the MPC cars: under acceleration, the weight went brutally back and un-settled the weight transfer, lifting the guide right off the slot and causing the car to crash. Under braking, the weight brutally hit its stop, causing a jerky motion and instant de-slotting. Lee Gilbert is still laughing every time the story is told as he was there. There is a picture of that loser in a Car Model issue from 1970.

No use to tell you that Ed Lewis did NOT make the Main that day... or hardly ever for that matters.

[One_Track_Mind]

:shock: I was amazed at how well HEI (Ron Hershman) was able to get the arms to clean up as good as he did. Thank you HEI for another job well done. :up:

Refer back to pages 1&2 to see the comparison:













The cans are nearly completed as the paint will be sprayed very soon,I'm gonna paint them black,with the arms dyed red,and white endbells,the color contrast is going to be that red,black,white through out the cars assemblies. More to follow.

While sending HEI the arms I also included another spec15 arm that needed some tlc,this one cleaned up really nice also.

[One_Track_Mind]

Bill,
I was thinking of placing this Spec 15 arm in a drag car,to be run at Shifters. It's only a bracket style racing, so it only needs to be consistent.Fast or Slow.
Not sure if they run this type of class or not?,I think they only run the TRRS classes,with some homemade classes of RULES only pertaining to them.

[One_Track_Mind]

Hello Everyone,

Here are pictures of what all the cans are gonna look like before painting.I'm still gonna use Cheater's advice and coat the inside with some metal prep. After smoothing out all the solder clumps,lightly beadblasted,they are ready for some metal primer+ colored paint. I'm thinking now of using black,+ possibly silver,or white for the color?....






I have decided to go ahead and replace the endbells with some new ones from HEI,seeing how they are gonna be blue,arms red,the can color has still been undecided.