37 replies to this topic

[hath27]

Can anyone illustrate the differences between the Outisight Can-Am Ferrari bodies #o/s-414 & #o/s-410?
Thanks!

[Noose]

Here is the OS 410



Here is the OS 414

[Mark Misegadis]

Noose, (Philippe, Please chime in here as well if you notice this thread)

Help a brutha out here.

That OS414 doesnt look like any 612 that I have ever seen. Do you have any photos of the 1-1 car that can justify that shape. If so I would love to see them and would appreciate the education.

From what I know there were two versions of the car. The 68 and 69 car. We see the 69 car modeled everywhere in all scales. Various wing configurations.. small coolers.. regfrigerator sized coolers etc.. but it always is a 69. (Doan Spencers handywork I am sure on the constant changes. I own a very nice example of his craftsmanship.)

Much less is seen of the 68 car with the airbrake on the nose that was crashed on the first lap of Vegas and if I recall.. that was the only race it attempted to run that year.

Now.. what I am not aware of is what happened with the car in 70 and so on. Perhaps the bodywork changed in the hands of a privateer or whatever and this is to be that car. Either way the scoops on the back look very 312-ISH at best. The cockpit is very very iffy as well as that nose.

Perhaps its just the paint as those versions are both wilder than a Central American bus compared to the Ferrari Red and #16,23,76 that we have seen in the past.

Let the Fiesta Musica play........

Mark

[Jairus]

One has a red tail and the other yellow! Easy, even a cave man can tell the difference....


check your iPhone... I bet there is an app. for that one too!

[Jairus]

I will probably get in trouble here but... hey, they have not hired me for work in over a year......

True Scale sells the early Ferrari 512 body. It is a nice pull but unsure of the orgins. Think it is a Lancer due to the nice molding.

[gascarnut]

The OS 414 depicts this car:



As you can see, the scoops at the rear are nicely correct.

There are other photos that will confirm the cockpit shape as being quite close to scale too.

The OS body is a modification of the original Waters/Bloom Ferrari - Mark, you used one on loan from me a few times for Loveland races.

Jairus' photo is the 1969 version of the 612 (not 512) - the one that had the airbrake on the nose. I think it is a Dynamic re-pop.

[Ron Hershman]

\

Jairus' photo is the 1969 version of the 612 (not 512) - the one that had the airbrake on the nose. I think it is a Dynamic re-pop.

More like the "68" 612 version See pic below...... then there was also to 69 712 Ferrari that only ran a couple of races in 69 and the difference was the engine.

[Tex]

Jairus' photo is the 1969 version of the 612 (not 512) - the one that had the airbrake on the nose. I think it is a Dynamic re-pop.

t

I'm pretty sure you are right about the OS 414 being a replica of the '69 Ferrari 612 you pictured and, as you pointed out, probably based upon the Champion Bloom/Waters slot car body. But I think both the OS 410 shown and the one Jairus shows are the '68 Ferrari 612. Yes, the two versions look different, with Jairus' body being the more realistic. OS tends to square off the front of their bodies, sacrificing a bit of realism for a bit of performance enhancement(in my opinion).

[Mark Misegadis]

Good Conversation Guys,

Please post ANY 612 photos or links here as this car has always been a little elusive when researching.

Jarius the one you have is a 68 car.

Dennis.. your photo is of the 69 car. ...Now..I do have one of the Dave Bloom bodies and recall the one you loaned me for a race here in Colorado. I dont remember the the girl having a big behind like the OS body appears to have although its tough to tell with the graphics.

From what I see it looks like the tail is kicked up more than the DB body. I have included photos of the one your speaking of that we ran here for a compare.

Mark

[Mark Misegadis]

Dennis, The scoops on the back.. I agree with. The rest of the body is closer to what Hershman posted which is the 1968 car with the “Airbrake/Diffuser” right where the radiator exit is between the front tires.

Now.. if it is not just the photo… I can tell you that Neither car had the rear kicked up like what that Slot Car body “Appears” to have. Its really tough to tell so Ron if you have another photo of the body your producing or could indulge us with some information on the mold that is being reproduced that would be great!

As far as the 712. I have no information that says that car raced in 69 anywhere and or that it was the same with a engine being the only thing different. If there is a source on this I would love to read about it. Racecars are under constant change so its always tough to document any of them.

Mark

[TSR]

The "712" is a 1970 to 1972 car so is not eligible for Can-Am in either D3 or I believe, in IRRA regs.

Here is the "712":



The legal bodies should be exacting replicas of period-issued bodies from the following manufacturers:

1967 "350 C/A" (a model derived from the 330P4 coupe and roadster):
-Lancer (now reproduced by REH)
-Any period British replica (Titan, GT Models...)

1968 "612"
-Champion (the Charlie Waters/Dave Bloom model)
-Associated/Kirby/MAC (all almost the same except detailing as the same fellow made them all)
-Any period British replica (Titan, GT Models...)

1969 "612'
-Lancer
-Dynamic
-Any period British replica (Titan, GT Models...)

As far as I can see, the O/S 410 is a modified replica of the Lancer/ Associated/ MAC 1968 "612" while the 414 is the same car rather poorly modeled by Champion as a pro-racing body by Charlie Waters.
The TS 612 is a more faithful replica of either the Lancer or the Dynamic, it is hard to tell on the picture. I think that it is the Dynamic.

All are legal since all are from before 1970.

[Mark Misegadis]

Philippe,

Any photos you have of any of these bodies would be of interest here.

Now while I have your attention, and we are talking about Ferraris I have a specific quesiton just for you.
The Electric Dreams MAC 312. Sexy and very similar to the TS 612.

All the 312 Ferraris I have encountered look nothing like this car. Could you help us out and deepen our historical information on this 1-1 model as well as this body?

Mark

[Mark Misegadis]

3 more photos for the reference material with a wilder set of numbers. This is the 1969 car. Note how the shrouding has grown on the oil cooler. Practice shots vs Raceday. ( A 4th I just found)

Mark

[endbelldrive]

Hi Mark,
Here are a few links to VSRN's website. They have made a major effort to scan and repost the Model Cars Magazine (UK) Prototype Parade 3-View Series.

Can-Am Ferrari 612 p.1
Can-Am Ferrari 612 p.2

[TSR]

All the 312 Ferraris I have encountered look nothing like this car. Could you help us out and deepen our historical information on this 1-1 model as well as this body?

From what I can figure out, it is more than likely a 612 called by the wrong name, and it is even possible that the wrong name calling might be recent, I have to verify that. It looks to me like the Lancer/Kirby/Associated Ferrari 612 all modeled by the same guy, minus the engine detail. I do not know more, other than it was one of the original MAC bodies that were more or less Lancer bodies after the Lancer company called it a day and the mold maker created the new company with two partners. It was sold along the 1968 Lola T160, and probably represents the 1968 car with variations.

[Ron Hershman]

Dennis, The scoops on the back.. I agree with. The rest of the body is closer to what Hershman posted which is the 1968 car with the “Airbrake/Diffuser” right where the radiator exit is between the front tires.

Now.. if it is not just the photo… I can tell you that Neither car had the rear kicked up like what that Slot Car body “Appears” to have. Its really tough to tell so Ron if you have another photo of the body your producing or could indulge us with some information on the mold that is being reproduced that would be great!

As far as the 712. I have no information that says that car raced in 69 anywhere and or that it was the same with a engine being the only thing different. If there is a source on this I would love to read about it. Racecars are under constant change so its always tough to document any of them.

Mark

The OS-414 is nothing more or less than a Bloom/Waters 612 lengthened a bit in the middle and lots of detail changes here and there. If you compared the OS-414 next to a original BW Champion 612 you will find them to have the same kick up in the rear.

If you want to go fast..... you better get a OS-414.

As for the 1969 712..... it ran at Riverside no pics...just in the cars entered listing.

http://www.racingspo...1969-10-26.html

The 712 was also at Laguna Seca BUT did not start http://wspr-racing.c.../canam1969.html

The difference between the 612 and 712 was the 612 ran a 6220 CC engine and the 712 ran a 6900 CC engine. The body work ( except for rear spoilers, air boxes, etc ) was the same as was the chassis.... the ONLY difference was the engines.

[Mark Misegadis]

Ron wrote:
The OS-414 is nothing more or less than a Bloom/Waters 612 lengthened a bit in the middle and lots of detail changes here and there. If you compared the OS-414 next to a original BW Champion 612 you will find them to have the same kick up in the rear.

If you want to go fast..... you better get a OS-414.


Ron, So this is a body mold that has been "developed" some then. Is that correct?

Thanks for that info on the 712. Headed there to take a look.

Mark

[Ron Hershman]

Ron wrote:
The OS-414 is nothing more or less than a Bloom/Waters 612 lengthened a bit in the middle and lots of detail changes here and there. If you compared the OS-414 next to a original BW Champion 612 you will find them to have the same kick up in the rear.

If you want to go fast..... you better get a OS-414.


Ron, So this is a body mold that has been "developed" some then. Is that correct?

Thanks for that info on the 712. Headed there to take a look.

Mark

No now more developed than the original. It's just a fast body.... many are now finding it to be as fast or faster than the TI-22 "parade" out there.

The original "shorter" B/W Champ 612 was fast for it's time..... probably a bit "radical" in it's day too.

[MSwiss]

Ron,
Thanks for making a nice looking body that runs good.
At R4, having more than just Ti22's on the starting line for the "feature", IMHO, was a good thing.

[slowjim]

Ferrari had two different prototype racers designated "312P", the first ran in 1967 and 1968 with a V-12, and was not very successful. This seems to be the version of the MAC-Electric Dreams body. The next 312P was the more familar one in the early 70s, usually called the 312 PB, with a flat-12 engine, and was basically a widened version of the 312 Formula One car (it was faster on some tracks than the F-1 car). JK makes a body of this version. The Can-Am Ferrari with the nose-mounted air brake first appeared in late 1968 (I saw it do a partial lap at the Stardust Grand Prix.) The JK Ferrari 612 represents this model. The later 612 Can-Am cars were based on the first 312Ps. Ferrari's way of designating different models is confusing, to say the least.

[Ron Hershman]

Ferrari had two different prototype racers designated "312P", the first ran in 1967 and 1968 with a V-12, and was not very successful.

Read more here about 312's................................ http://www.imca-slot...Ferrari312P.htm

Pic of 68/69 312

[TSR]

I do not think that the MAC "312P" was based on this car. I believe that it was a "612" minus the engine details as requested by period pros. In fact, the MAC "612" I engineered with the built-in rear spoiler and front diaplane was based on that mold, and it was called a "612"...

[Mark Misegadis]

For 1968, Ferrari built their first true Can- Am car, the 612, powered by a 6-liter V12 engine. The 612 had a steel tube space frame chassis with aluminum body. It carried a movable wing above the engine, just behind the driver. There were two trim tabs on the wing and a perforated panel on the nose that raised under braking to act as air brakes. The car was heavy, the brakes were weak, and both handling and aerodynamics were slightly off. The 612 raced only once (by Amon), at the last race of the season in Las Vegas. It was eliminated in a multi-car accident on the first lap. Pedro Rodriguez also ran the year old P4 in two races but finished neither.

In 1969, Ferrari again got Amon's 612P into the series late, but this time they only missed three races. Although built on the 1968 car's chassis, the 612P was lighter and horsepower was up to about 650. Late in the season the engine size was increased to 6.9 liters. Amon qualified well, led several laps, and had a second and a third place finish, but usually he was let down by the engine. He was sixth in the season's final standings. Jim Adams campaigned the 612P (with engine size reduced to 5 liters) in 1970 and 1971 with little success.

In 1971, Ferrari entered a new car, the 712, in only one race. The car was based on Ferrari's 512S/M coupe endurance racer but with slightly different suspension, a 680-hp 7-liter engine, and wedge shaped body. Mario Andretti qualified the car sixth at Watkins Glen and finished fourth. Jean- Pierre Jarier drove the 712 a few times in 1972 with his best finish being a fourth.

(There was a comment earlier that there was a 612 with larger engine designated the 712. I think that this information is incorrect and perhaps you have run accross a typo with your source.)

[Ron Hershman]

Read on....................

The Ferrari CanAm car was dubbed the 350. It had some success but never a top contender or a top-three finish. At the close of the 1968 season, the Ferrari 612 P was introduced. It was powered by Ferrari's largest engine to-date, a 6.2-liter unit that produced 620 horsepower. The engine was placed mid-ship, mated to a four-speed gearbox, and powered the rear wheels. The car competed at Las Vegas but it failed to finish the first lap due to a multi-car accident. The 612 P was not damaged, but during the incident sand made its way into the engine and was unable to re-start.

For the 1969 CanAm Season, the NART team returned with their 612 but with a modified engine. Ferrari had increased the engines output to 640 bhp by increasing the displacement to 6.9-liters, resulting in a new designation, the Ferrari 712 P. It would race only one event.

And one more about the 1969 712P Ferrari Can-Am

The Ferrari 612 was returned to Ferrari where the body was modified and engine output increased to 640 horsepower. It returned to America for the ’69 season and finished third in its first race, at Watkins Glen. Later that year, Ferrari shipped over a 6.9-liter V-12, giving the model the designation Ferrari 712 P. It competed in just one race, and was black-flagged for a rules infraction.

So the 1969 612 had a 6.2 liter engine and the 1969 712 had a 6.9 liter engine and the 712 only ran in ONE Can-Am event in 1969. Entered by Formula 1 Enterprises and was blackflagged at the start for being push started.

Read here for a bit more info and you can see where Amon ran the 712P IN 1969 in one race. http://en.wikipedia....9_Can-Am_season

[Mark Misegadis]

Hersh,

First off.. Thanks for the interest in this topic.
Next.. hit us with a direct link as to your references as it looks like there are multiple to build that post.
I own 4 can am Books. I bought every one for information on the 612 and hopefully photos. There is very very little in each. Always a bunch of White.. or Orange cars if you know what I mean.

Mark

PS: Here is one of your TruScale 612 clones below. This is the one that actually looks like a Ferrari! WINK. Not bad but the next one will be a little more detailed as I was in a hurry.