95 replies to this topic

[Cheater]

dont wanna burst you guys bubbles out there,but there aint no set of bushing that can spin an axle/tires/gear or motor like ball bearings... your fooling yourself,if you think that,,,,,,,lol

Oscar,

If ball bearings were that superior, every VW and Porsche race car would be using a Hirth-style built-up crank and ball/roller bearings, don't you think? And you know they don't...

I do agree with you that quality ball bearings are the ultimate, but the right bushings installed the correct way ain't that far behind... maybe a couple of percent or so.

If you can install rear axle bushings such that when you pick the chassis up off the table (under the proper conditions) the rear axle assembly self-rotates to put the heavy side down, you've got pretty decent bushings IMO. And yes, I can make that happen most of the time with the correct bushings and alignment technique.

[MantaRay]

Oscar, I've see Cheaters little demonstration listed above. I'm sure it takes a little more time. But he made it happen.....
Oh, Just a reminder........Do NOT forget to lubricate the Slick 7 bushings with the correct Glidex or whatever you know that works.
They will "turn", or more specifically, Not turn on you, if neglected.

[The Bugman]

CHEATER,bring yer bushings with ya to The Checkpoint races,we gonna see bout bushings vs.bearings,ina spin-off,,,,,,,lol,,,and my BB's are over 2 years old ,,

[MantaRay]

Norman, As the old saying goes....You get what you pay for.........The best bearings go for around $35.00 a pair. Their is some type of ABEC rating.........from 7 to 3 (may be wrong, usually am) The highest are used for medical dental tools and machinery used in the food industry. Also Nats winning Group 7 cars
I have used the Koford bearings priced around $18.00 pr. because they FIT the Koford Inline Flatted Axle perfectly.

Hopefully some more knowledgeable folks will chime in

[Noose]

Yes Cheater can make em spin as well but can he make them last as long?

[MantaRay]

Sure he can.............He's to busy reporting, to Race

[slotcarone]

Norm IMO with an inline chassis the ball bearings are the way to go if allowed in the rules like Mike Swiss said it permits gear mesh with no side to side slop. Just to let you know Jimmy at HVR sells generic 3/32 ball bearings for 6 bucks a set that are the same ones that come packaged for 10 bucks. I use them in all my retro cars and they work great and last a long time. I install them with Loctite Blue.

[Noose]

Hey Mike...now yanno Tony P would tell ya this..

If you used Loctite Red you wouldn't finish 3rd

[slotcarone]

So that's been the problem all along??

[Mopower71]

Norm IMO with an inline chassis the ball bearings are the way to go if allowed in the rules like Mike Swiss said it permits gear mesh with no side to side slop. Just to let you know Jimmy at HVR sells generic 3/32 ball bearings for 6 bucks a set that are the same ones that come packaged for 10 bucks. I use them in all my retro cars and they work great and last a long time. I install them with Loctite Blue.

Mike,
Are they shielded or open?

For those that are running ball bearings, What type are you using, as there is a choice between a few different types?

[slotcarone]

They are shielded.

[Ralph Thorne]

I agree with Cheater. If your bushings don't spin like ball bearings, then you've got other problems.

[Ron Hershman]

Ball bearings have play..... if they didn't...they wouldn't spin. Think about it.

Besides... once the axle assembly gets up to speed........ ball bearings won't make the assembly go faster even when it hits max speed.

Ball bearings may spin up quicker and may add a bit of coast.... but that's about it IMO

[Ron Hershman]

I guess the only true test would to build two cars as equal as possible and being identical weight one with ball bearings and oilites and running them "Pinewood Derby" style down a track with a hill and a long flat straight and see which one coasts the farthest......

That would be the test.

[Pappy]

Pappy
Id be glad to give you the 20 bucks for it.

Don't got the motor no more Victor, but I do have a Versitec sidewinder chassis still in the box.

[Mopower71]

Ball bearings have play..... if they didn't...they wouldn't spin. Think about it.

Besides... once the axle assembly gets up to speed........ ball bearings won't make the assembly go faster even when it hits max speed.

Ball bearings may spin up quicker and may add a bit of coast.... but that's about it IMO

Yes, the ball bearings would have to have some play to rotate, But is it less or more than with bushings?

Do ball bearings have more or less friction than bushings; if they have less, it would mean if all things are equal, the motor would have the ability to better reach its max rpm due to less drag, or friction.

[Mark Wampler]

I would tend to go with BBs generally. BBs have some give which does come in handy when an excessive hit tweaks the rear bracket. Oilites/bushings can seize up, but BBs will keep you running.

[Mike Patterson]

I was having problems with the axle spacers wearing away the bushing face as well as the magnesium on the wheel, necessitating gear mesh readjustment every couple of heats. I switched to bearings, and that hemorrhoid went away .

I use Pro Track bearings at $9 a pair, and held in place with Loctite® 222.

[Cheater]

Yes Cheater can make em spin as well but can he make them last as long?

You bet, and maybe longer.

Just like the main bearings in your car, the metal surfaces rarely touch, if you set 'em up right and use the proper oil.

Keep in mind, I'm not talking about sintered-metal oilite bushings, which I stopped using years ago.

[Mopower71]

You bet, and maybe longer.

Just like the main bearings in your car, the metal surfaces rarely touch, if you set 'em up right and use the proper oil.

Keep in mind, I'm not talking about sintered-metal oilite bushings, which I stopped using years ago.

But the main bearings in your car have a pump that constantly forces oil in between the bearing and the main journal.
I'm thinking the trick is in the "proper oil" you are using.

[Cheater]

Norman,

No, the "tricks", if you wish to call them that, are the alignment procedure and the non-oilite bushing.

Consider this: how best to align two bushings so that they are nearly perfectly co-axial, with bores as parallel as possible.

Capillary action will keep the oil where it needs to be if the clearances, and the viscosity and surface tension of the oil, are within the proper range of values.

One further thought: what might be the effect of constructing the main bearings in an internal combustion engine from sintered-metal oilite material?

[Mopower71]

One further thought: what might be the effect of constructing the main bearings in an internal combustion engine from sintered-metal oilite material?

That just made me cringe, if I am thinking about that correctly, it would be pulling the oil away from the crank surface.

Maybe tricks wasn't the proper term to use. Using the correct oil.

[The Bugman]

Can of worms in some parts of the slot world

Mark W,

You were soooooooo right, "can of worms reopened"... LOL!

[Steve Deiters]

I think the advantage that may be offered by ball bearings over bushings is minimal at best, if at all. When you factor in the cost/benefit of ball bearings vs oilites. The choice falls directly and strongly to oilites. I did a search on the net for ball bearing vs oilites and I came across this observation-"... oilite bronzes are excellent for light duty on low speed shafts where low friction and no maintenance is required - their friction coefficieint is smaller than that of ball or roller bearings." That last phrase is the key observation. So it comes down to parasitic friction loss that one type of bearing (ball or roller bearings) brings to the table when compared to oilites.

I have to agree with many of the other posters that properly installed, aligned, and lubricated oilites will provide better overall performance than ball bearings. My recent experience with cars equipped with both has been pointing that way much to my surprise to be honest with you.

In summary I think this is one of those discussions that will go on and on from both sides of the argument. At the end of the day I think with all factors considered oilites is the word.

[John Streisguth]

OK, now how about when you factor in cornering forces? A bushing may spin free in a static situation, but slot cars are hardly static when they are being raced.

Hard to prove one is better than the other... ya pays yer money and ya makes yer choice.