235 replies to this topic

[TSR]

I still say leave well enough alone with the Can-Am class. . . .

My feelings exactly.

[jimht]

Div 3 is an example of what can happen if the ingredients are right.
Racing programs come & go but this is a little different. Chris & Lenore didn't have to sell several hundred cars to wind up with dozens of guys racing.

The current success has much to do with the motors being used.
Most long term players consider the motor to be one of the parts of a slot car that should be tinkered with.
That's what we've always done but doesn't mean doing so is right or even necessary to have fun.
I've heard exactly the same complaints about every sealed motor class, so what?

Chassis used to be something interesting. Nowadays they're all just stamped or precision cut womp-womp wannabees with about as much character as an Ultimate GTP body.
This program makes the chassis the part to play with instead of something else.
Cheap thrills.

Slot cars are still big or have become big again where the tracks still look like real tracks, the cars still look like real cars, the racing is involved with realistic speeds & the majority of the participants view the motor as what you use to make the car move...and not something you mess with.
Mike said:

Even in D3, unless you race on a track that is mostly all turns, the motor will always be important.

If you're getting pulled down the straight, it's too long; put some esses in the middle of it.

[CruzinBob]

If you're getting pulled down the straight, it's too long; put some esses in the middle of it.

You know I've done just that at times but unfortunately the slot wasn't there

[MrWeiler]

There are many skills involved in D3, building, painting, aero, design, tuning, tires, gearing, break-in, driving and tactics, pit work, guess work, and luck.

Work on your driving, one deslot costs at least a lap. One more lap in the slot can fix a lot of motor shortcomings. The B race was a crashfest - crashing less is just like having a better motor. How many times did YOU crash on Sunday? If you were running 5.0 laps and someone was going 5.2 and you fell off once and lost a lap, then you had to run 25 laps at 5.0 without falling off to get your lap back. Quit whining and drive better.

I agree, Mike. I was off two times by my own mistakes, from what I recall on Sunday. Any other time was when I was taken out by another car. I won the B race with a lap total that would have placed THIRD in the A race with a car that qualified TENTH in the 35 car field. Even Paul Sterrett's 278 was seventh highest lap total of all races, which would have put him in the A race. This was with a car that qualified 21st in the field! Ask Paul how many times he was off . . .

All this talk about faster motors does NOT resolve the driving and the car set-up issues. One of the reasons the top finishers are faster is that they work on the car and tune it to the track. Doesn't matter which track. Ask Mike Steube (or Chris at BP) how many times Mike is in the raceway trying new setups before the monthly race. BTW PdL gets second choice of Mike's fleet. Tore is just plain good when it comes to building. Ask to look at his car and notice the tolerances - - his cars ARE close to rocket science for the materials involved.

Most of the racers would have trouble keeping more horsepower in the slot. The B main on Sunday was only a crash fest for those trying to catch up by over-driving the handling of their car..

My 2nd place 270 laps in the C would have resulted in a tie for 4th in the B or 7th in the A. If it was just motor and car then EVERONE in the A and B should have had higher lap totals than I did. I was off three times, once t-boned in the finger from four lanes away. Once by myself testing to see if I could use Sterrett's brake point in the lead-on (wouldn't work). And the last one somebody crashed in front of me in the finger just as the power went off at the end of the race. ALL of which were my fault for not avoiding or anticipating or driving better. :mrgreen:

If it was up to me and we had to have qualifying we'd have 1 minute timed runs for laps and sections. Thin out the one-lap wonders who cause most of the crashing - but It's NOT up to me.

[Mike K]

If it was up to me and we had to have qualifing we'd have 1 minute timed runs for laps and sections. Thin out the one-lap wonders who cause most of the crashing

My thoughts exactly!

[MSwiss]

PdL,
On the 100 motors, I wasn't referring to this past race. I've read
about it in past threads in what I interpeted as being serious.
Have you or haven't you bought that many at once?

There was mention of all the crashing in the B race from overdriving
and that most racers probably couldn't handle more HP.
HP in reference to FK motors seems like an oxymoron and saying most driver's couldn't handle more is a real insult to their driving ability.
Overdriving occurs when you have a slow motor and/or a poor handling car.
Once you get passed a few times, you have nothing to lose but to drive your car 102%
in a usually unsuccessful attempt to keep up.

And Mr. HT,
Putting esses in the middle of straightaway? You say that so non-challantly, like
these are snap-together plastic tracks.

[Mike K]

There was mention of all the crashing in the B race from overdriving and that most racers probably couldn't handle more HP. HP in reference to FK motors seems like an oxymoron and saying most driver's couldn't handle more is a real insult to their driving ability.Overdriving occurs when you have a slow motor and/or a poor handling car.

Is that what I said? What's your point? Let me clarify mine . . .

The reference to handling more HP was not directed at the need for faster FK motors, only that faster motors of ANY kind will magnify the lack of handling in a chassis.

No knock on other's driving ability, only that everyone needs practice at times, even on the BP King. I still agree with Mr. Weiler's statement that staying in the slot will do more to get a car to the front of the field than a faster motor in an ill-handling car will, in many instances.

[MrWeiler]

There was mention of all the crashing in the B race from overdriving
and that most racers probably couldn't handle more HP.
HP in reference to FK motors seems like an oxymoron and saying most driver's couldn't handle more is a real insult to their driving ability.
Overdriving occurs when you have a slow motor and/or a poor handling car.
Once you get passed a few times, you have nothing to lose but to drive your car 102%
in a usually unsuccessful attempt to keep up..

My comments were directed more at getting people to practice, dial in their cars, and then drive within their and the cars' abilities, because that's what Tore, PdL, and Steube are doing. Mike, while the low-power motor can cause people to overdrive, I had no intention if disparaging anyone's driving ABILITY, just their race tactics.

Driving FASTER when you are already crashing does not lend itself to making up any time at all. Contrary to what you said, overdriving occurs with fast cars, slow cars, ill and great handling cars. Overdriving happens to backmarkers as well as people who are leading by 20 laps and trying to stretch it to break some track record for total laps. Overdriving the car ALWAYS leads to lost laps - by crashing, damaging the car or tires, or by just scrubbing off too much speed in a corner if the car stays on. You have PLENTY to lose by going to 102%. MORE LAPS is what you lose. If you were already driving at or near the car's or your limit, then speeding up will most likely make you crash again. When you crash you need to SLOW DOWN and STOP CRASHING and not compound your mistake with another. A deslot costs a lot more time than slowing 3-5%. It feels wrong, but it's not. My comments about the B race came because it was looking a lot like a wing car race for 4 of the 8 heats. There was a track call every two or three laps - in light spray glue with good drivers and slow cars. :shock:

[John E]

And that line about the esses being there but not the slot may just be the funniest line ever uttered about slot car racing.

Thanks, Bob.

We could always vote on it . . .

[Ron Hershman]

That is unless Hershman builds me some Pro Slot blueprinted jobs, eh! 8)

How many you want???

[Pappy]

How many you want????

The early worm gets the bird.

[Ron Hershman]

I personally do not want 16D or C-cans in this successful class, it would ruin it.
My opinion, if anyone cares.

I care. Why would 16D or C-cans ruin this class???

[TSR]

On the 100 motors, I wasn't referring to this past race. I've read
about it in past threads in what I interpeted as being serious.
Have you or haven't you bought that many at once?

The answer is: never. We joked about it with Tore, and I am sorry that it was taken seriously . . .

Why would 16D or C-cans ruin this class???

For the very reason you kindly posted:

How many you want????

I don't think I need to say more.
There are PLENTY of other classes for racing such motors.

[Ron Hershman]

Why would 16D or C-cans ruin this class???

For the very reason you kindly posted:

I was referring to the fact I care about your opinion.

So what is your opinion or your thoughts as to why 16D or C-cans would ruin this class?

[TSR]

Simply because they invite anyone with knowledge to significantly improve the performance of these motors without anyone detecting the changes, squeezing the beginners or amateurs with limited time straight out.

There are other classes for that. D3 is currently successful because the motor equation is simple and rather inexpensive regardless of how many motors (as long as one is not getting too stupid) one purchases for racing. Even if one purchases 10 motors, it's only 90 bucks. I can see a LOT more in two 16D or C-can motors, and the escalation begins.

If D3 Retro Can-Am ever switches from FK format (not perfect but adequate with what is available), I will go back to my other hobbies and I am sure quite a few will also let go.
I also have made suggestions to the Powers That Be that a close visual inspection of said motors could be performed before and after races to deter possible "blueprinted" versions.

[jimht]

Mike said:

And Mr. HT,
Putting esses in the middle of straightaway? You say that so non-challantly, like
these are snap-together plastic tracks.

If P.A. can drop a chunk of new straight going into & out of the bank to make his track "Legal Length" according to the King Track Slot Police Supreme Court of Useless Nitpicking, then dropping Esses onto anything is no big deal.
It certainly makes much more sense to modify a track to make it more attractive to a larger group than a smaller.
Personally, I think Esses in the straight, along with some bumps, would be way more fun, even if the guy with the faster motor doesn't get to beat everyone just because he's lucky or wealthy enough to have a faster motor.
You built your track, Mike; we all watched vicariously. Some of us even know what you went through. :mrgreen:
You could drop some Esses right into the middle of that sucker, can't fool me.

[KenMiles]

I personally do not want 16D or C-cans in this successful class, it would ruin it.
My opinion, if anyone cares.

I care. Why would 16D or C-cans ruin this class???

Hi Ron, racers.

It is time for the handout method, whether the choice of motors be FK, 16D, 16C, or Pro Slot 4K. To remain in denial that for experienced motor builders, the FK is any less susceptable to tampering, this is simply unrealistic. A method of pre-grading the handout motors must also be implemented.

However I agree with Philippe that if D3 motors are allowed to go unregulated, Division III will suffer the consequences of the motors wars that ruined every other class in slot car racing.

As it stands, the motor blueprinters' services are valued for access to improved speed. How, then, might you feel about motor blueprinters' services employed for the purpose of attaining regulated motor performance? I would guess everything changes.

ThanX :mrgreen: 8)

Ken Miles modeled in red clay,

[Prof. Fate]

Hi,

In Defence of JimHT . . .

He is the only guy I know that has managed to keep himself in the raceway owner business since the "golden age". So, while I have not always benefited from his rules, I would guess that running programs is someting he understands.

He would probably admit to having made every possible mistake! Grin.

As for the "hundred motors".
Around the world, I know a reasonable number of groups racing 1/32 clubs who are "NC-1"only groups. The fast guys DO buy the motors by the bin. They test them all and then simply sell the losers at discount to the other club members.

So, the point about why people are fussing about this . . . I don't know. Toy cars, no rent money, no trophies, what is the real point? The real point is that all of us have a streak of "A$$ Hole " competitor in us. We like blaming some rule, like the motor, for our losses, and we love "blaming' our wonderful driving when we win.

So, in that case, this thread is just hot air!

The complaints would be the same no matter what the rules!

But I still enjoy building motors.

Fate

[Pappy]

Not to change the subject, but since we are talking about esses I'm going to ask a question. I am eventually going to build myself a four-lane track in my barn. I was thinking about putting esses in just one lane going into a turn to simulate locking up the brakes. Has anyone tried this and what do you think?

[Slotgeezer]

. . . But I still enjoy building motors . . .

Me too, Rocky! :mrgreen: . . . So, I'll race in the Retro-winder Koupe Klass, and have MORE fun! LOL!
C-ya!

[CruzinBob]

...You could drop some Esses right into the middle of that sucker, can't fool me.

Tracks made and remade . . . I turned a King into a blue Prince and tri-oval!

http://gofastest.com...NewLookKing.jpg

http://gofastest.com.../CruzinNew3.jpg

http://gofastest.com.../CruzinNew4.jpg :shock:

[idare2bdul]

JimHT likes esses and so do I. Decreasing radius turns and an off camber sweeper were features at Rosecrans. It rewarded driving.

The trend to punchbowl tracks and full-punch open class cars was a real turnoff for me.

Was I the only one that thought the number of track calls got out of hand on the King race? Paul was blazing fast getting the power off which was kind of good news/bad news. You couldn't make up ground on the guy that was off.
If you were off you still had a car in one piece to drive.

[BWA]

Tracks made and remade . . . I turned a King into a blue Prince and tri-oval!

Excellent use of a King track, Bob; others should take note. 8)

[MSwiss]

Slot cars are still big or have become big again where the tracks still look like real tracks, the cars still look like real cars, the racing is involved with realistic speeds & the majority of the participants view the motor as what you use to make the car move...and not something you mess with.

Jim,
Apparently you never sent the memo to your good friend, P.A. Watson.

[MSwiss]

You built your track, Mike; we all watched vicariously. Some of us even know what you went through. :mrgreen:
You could drop some Esses right into the middle of that sucker, can't fool me.

No, it's impossible.
I do plan to cobble up a flat track.