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Mounting new rubber on old hubs


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#1 Mad Mexican

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 11:17 PM

Amigos,

I have clean up about thirty sets of good old tire hubs.Posted Image Looking to re-skin them with fresh rubber.
Other than rubber cement which is obvious.Posted Image What is the best adhesive to use to put fresh rubber on old tire hubs?Posted Image

Thank you in advance for your input!

Adios
Javier Zavala
In loving memory of my mother Francisca Escalante Zavala
March 24, 1927 - April 5, 2011
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#2 Mopar Rob

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 11:41 PM

3M 8001 Super Weatherstrip Adhesive (yellow).
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#3 Marty Stanley

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 05:31 AM

Either the stuff that Mopar Rob has said, also known far and wide as "Gorilla Snot" or Weldwood contact cement.

I have successfully used both. Thin with a bit of lacquer thinner to make it easier to work with.

Right now I am running a little test with a new adhesive. This is something I had used for years for attaching motorcycle hand grips. It has never failed me there and I think it is going to work very well for mounting tires as well. It makes the job much simpler. I just need to run a race with the tires and I'll know the answer. The stuff is hair spray for women. I use the extra hold and it seems to work. It is still in testing, but if you want to help me, just use it. Spread some on both rim and inside of donut and assemble. It's very easy to slide the donut in place and I've run practice laps thus far and have not had a failure. I want more testing before saying this is the way to go. But testing is showing good results thus far.
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#4 Bill from NH

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 07:03 AM

As Rob says, the Gorilla Snot works great. If you don't like the yellow color, it's now available in black, too. :)
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#5 Brian

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 08:12 AM

Amigo,

The above mentioned is all good, I've used them all. No real difference but I like the Weldwood best, seems to be easier to work for me. I use a Q-tip to apply on the hubs and in the donuts.

One thing though, when you start to size the newly-rubbered hub, you will have shrinkage do to heat generated. I personally rough the new tire down to .050/.060" away from the finish size, let the tires sit overnight (they will shrink), then stay .030" away from your finish on the second, then .010", then finish. I've scrapped a few the first time I tried the process that you're about to attempt.

Good luck,
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#6 Gary Mayeda

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 10:02 AM

The very best is contact cement made by Rubatex. But you have to buy it in quantity and its not cheap but the best.

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#7 Mr. Frank

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 10:07 AM

Yeah, Gary...Posted Image That's been the best I have used, too.. It is a bit pricey, but it goes a looonnnggg way... Posted Image

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#8 Gary Mayeda

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 11:38 AM

Also the best and easiest way to remove rubber from hubs is to soak in Coleman fuel overnight and it won't tarnish the hubs. :)

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#9 Prof. Fate

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 12:20 PM

Hi,

I soak them in a bottle of lacquer thinner to clean them, and usually use "Goo" to put new on.

Fate
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#10 Jacob Shiplet

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 12:35 PM

I actually had good luck with Goop. Comes in a blue tube, cheap and works pretty well. Armstrong Armaflex 520 is also another good choice.
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#11 JerseyJohn

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 02:18 PM

I use acetone... Rubber falls off and it dissolves all of the goo so the rims are shiny and clean.
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#12 Jay Guard

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 03:21 PM

SLOT CAR TIRE MOUNTING PROCEDURE

1. Get enough axles (old, new or bent, it doesn't matter) to mount all of the hubs you're going to glue. I put a hub on each end of the axle but if you've got enough axles one hub per axle is a little easier to handle. You'll also need adhesive (I now use 3M #80 Spray Adhesive), lacquer thinner, and a wide-mouth glass jar a few inches deep.

1a. (Optional) At this point take one of the rims and put it on your Hudy tire truer. Use a few spacers to get it centered on the truing drum. Now move the tire cutting pin so the point is right at the outer edge of the hub. This will be a big help when you start to trim the tires since this is hard to set precisely after the rubber is mounted.

1b. (Optional) Mark the position of the setscrew on the inner face of each hub (where the axle spacers would touch) with a scratch or drill "dot". You don't have to do this on SpeedShop rims since you can usually see the position of the set screw after the tire is mounted. However, a few times it has been helpful when I mounted a tire too far over the inside flange.

2. Tighten the hubs onto the axles (fairly tight) near the ends of the axle, make sure you position the hubs so the set screws line up if you put two hubs on an axle.

3. Put at least an inch or two of lacquer thinner in the jar and dip the hubs in for a few seconds. Remove, shake, and let dry a few minutes. This will degrease the hubs; don't touch them with your fingers after this.

4. I spray a small amount of 3M #80 into a shallow cup and then using a small stick or brush coat the inside of the tire donuts with a fairly thick coating of adhesive. Use too much rather than too little and make sure the entire inside diameter of the donut is coated, especially near the ends. Set them on their side to dry, it usually takes about 15 minutes but check the manufacturers instructions.

5. While the tires are drying coat the hubs with contact cement. Use the same procedure as with the donuts but try not to let the glue drip down into the set screw access hole and get in the screw. It's OK to get a thin "film" over the set screw access hole (this will usually go away as the glue dries) but it doesn't really matter since this hole will be cleaned out later anyway. Stand the hubs/axles on their end and let dry. Check the adhesive manufacturer's instructions but it's usually better for the glue to be a little bit too dry than too wet.

6. Now for the moment of truth! Take a donut and dip it in the lacquer thinner for four or five seconds. Remove and quickly slide it onto the hub with a twisting motion and align the inner end of the donut with the inner edge of the hub. It shouldn't be sticking out over the inner edge of the rim more than a 1/16" (it's OK if it does but it will take you longer to trim the tires). It should stick over the outer (open) end of the hub, depending on the donut an 1/8"or more.
***IMPORTANT NOTE*** This operation has to be done in about three to five seconds; after this the glue will grip and you won't be able to move anything. If you find that the donut wants to stick to the hub immediately you will have to leave the donut in the lacquer thinner a little longer and dip the hub, too. Another possible cause is that the glue wasn't dry enough.

7. Let the tires dry for at least three days before trimming or truing.

8. The next step is to make a hole in the donut so you can get at the set screw (this depends on the make of hub). I do this with a Dremel and a small (approx. 1/16" dia.) ball grinder but you can also use a drill bit. I hold the axle and while looking at the inside of the hub and try to drill straight down on top of the set screw. This takes a little practice but once you've done it a few times it's easier than you think. If you miss a little bit it's OK, just move a little and re-drill. I've mis-drilled tires a few times and it really doesn't seem to affect tire performance at all.

9. Now you can remove the tires from the axles and mount them on your tire truer. First cut the outside excess rubber off using the previously positioned (step 1a) cutter. Next I finish the inside edge with a quick touch of an emery board; if you mounted the rubber correctly you should have very little to remove here. You can now grind/true the outside diameter of the tire. I usually only take them down to around .850" since the tires will change size slightly over the next few weeks. This allows me to have fresh rubber on the surface when I true them to the needed size (just before a race).

10. When you have used the tire and the rubber is worn too low all you have to do is put the whole thing in the jar of lacquer thinner. In about 30+ minutes they will pop right off the hubs and be ready for another retread. You can retread them many, many times. Just check that the hubs aren't bent, the axle holes aren't worn, and the set screw can be tightened without stripping.

Final note: I know this sounds like a lot but it's not so bad after you've done it a time or two. I like to do twenty or more pairs at a time and get it all over with at one time.
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#13 Ron Hershman

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 03:51 PM

DO NOT USE WELDWOOD!!! Your dounts will come off your wheels. I learned this the hard way years ago.

3M Yellow is more than sufficent and easy to come by. Yes, Rubatex and even Armstrong may be better, but overkill and not necessary.

I always mixed it 50/50 with thinner to make it easier to use, with less "stringing".
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#14 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 05:43 PM

Just as Ron says. I have had tires come off using Weldwood, never with the 3M Gorilla snot, and the yellow 3M is better than the black, the yellow is stronger.

Do not use the Permatex Yellow adhesive that is similar to the 3M cement, it is not as strong and will not hold. I learned that on a S16D-powered GTP when the donuts threw off in a turn.

Jay's method works well and is pretty much what I do when I do mine as I buy donuts from various suppliers.

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#15 Jay Guard

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 05:49 PM

Ron's right about the Weldwood, don't use it!

When I first started retreading tires I used Weldwood and it generally worked OK. However after some time I started to have problems with the tires coming loose at the edges. That's when I changed over to the adhesive (3M #80) that Lee Gilbert uses, problem solved!!

I think the problem is that Weldwood has changed its formula significantly over the years (due to EPA/OSHA concerns?) and now it does NOT seem to work very well.
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#16 Rick

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 06:08 PM

Possible the problem using Weldwood is that is must be mixed very well and the solids that settle on the bottom must be put back into suspension with the liquid part.

With the 3M gorilla snot is is so thick the solids cannot settle out.

And I would think no one is thinking of using the water-based Weldwood? After all gorilla snot is just Weldwood in a thicker state...
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#17 MantaRay

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 06:14 PM

That's when I changed over to the adhesive (3M #80) that Lee Gilbert uses, problem solved!!

Jay,

Do you spray it? If so, how?
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#18 Pablo

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 07:17 PM

Re-read Jay's instruction #4, Ray Ray... :)
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#19 Ron Hershman

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 07:22 PM

The problem with Weldwood is that it's too thin and made for a dummy to install carpet in his house and that's about all it's good for.

Weldwood is junk... period for our use. Do not waste your time and money using Weldwood.

#20 Brian

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 07:39 PM

I haven't had any problem yet, but I'm glad this was brought up for my own information. I'm currently out of contact cement so I'll give the 3M #80 a try.

Not interested in having any failures,
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#21 slotcarone

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 08:10 PM

:D The number for the 3M yellow used to be 8001 - is it still the same?

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#22 Mopar Rob

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 08:22 PM

Yellow is 8001, black is 8008.
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#23 Mad Mexican

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 10:39 PM

Amigos,

I like to thank all that input into this thread, especially Jay Guard with the great tutorial.Posted Image

I have been racing slots for only eight years and I kept a majority of my good spent hubs. Posted Image

For those that I race with hopefully this works. It would be embarassing for those tires to fly of the hubs! Posted Image

I thank you all again!

Adios, Amigos...
Javier Zavala
In loving memory of my mother Francisca Escalante Zavala
March 24, 1927 - April 5, 2011
Vaya Con Dios

#24 Cheater

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 10:31 AM

Jay's write-up deserves to be saved for posterity. I'm pinning this thread....
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#25 Noose

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 12:08 PM

Jay Guard's "article" can now also be found in the "How To" section of the IRRA website. Ron's article has been added too!:

Making-Mounting Tires

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#26 Cheater

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 12:55 PM

Slotblog member Brian McPherson reminded me that Ron Hershman had posted a small tire mounting tutorial back in October, 2007. With Ron's help, we located the thread and I'm going to repost Ron's less-detailed how-to here, just because it has a couple of tips that aren't included in Jay's tutorial above.

Mounting tires 101... ring the bell... class is now in session.

DO NOT USE CA GLUE to hold donuts on wheels. They will come apart.

1) Clean old wheels of old glue. Soaking them in lacquer thinner will do the trick.

2) Clean wheels, both new and used in acetone... this gets rid of any oils from thinner, old glue, or newly-machined hubs.

3) Use 3M Weatherstrip Adhesive... the yellow snot stuff. The best trick is to squeeze some into a class jar then add 25 to 35% lacquer thinner and mix. This stops the "stringing" of the glue when putting on wheels or donuts. This also thins it so the donut will absorb the glue into the pores. Better adhesion.

4) Get some pipe cleaners... fuzzy stuff on a piece of piano wire... you know what I am talking about. Craft stores sell them and they are longer and thicker. Bend the fuzzy stick in half and in half again. Now you have a real nice thick swab. Dip this into the glue and then slide in and out of the hole in the donut getting the glue to fully coat the inside of the donut hole.

5) BIG STEP HERE... put donuts on a sheet of WAX PAPER and let the glue dry. The donuts and glue will not stick to the wax paper. They will stick to your workbench if not using wax paper.

6) Coat the out side of the rim/wheel with glue mix. Stand on end with the set screw up in the air. Again set onto wax paper and let dry.

7) After a hour or two of the donuts and wheels drying, you are ready to insert wheel into donut. Get a small container and fill with some lacquer thinner. The quickest way is to dip the donut into the thinner and let it sit for about five seconds or so then quickly slide wheel into donut. Leave set on wax paper and dry.

8. Another big step... let assembled tires set for at least 24 hours before grinding/truing to size.

You can have lots of fun and possibly get quite a buzz making tires.


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#27 Mopar Rob

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 03:15 PM

Maybe we can get Rick to make some tools like the AB SlotSport Donut Wizzard? Always wanted one, just too much of a pain in the butt to get just one item for the UK.

Attached File  donut%20wizzard.pdf   942.67KB   191 downloads
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#28 fxgeorge

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 04:28 PM

SLOT CAR TIRE MOUNTING PROCEDURE
...
Final note: I know this sounds like a lot but it's not so bad after you've done it a time or two. I like to do twenty or more pairs at a time and get it all over with at one time.

Wow, this looks like a "Federal project"... no, no, no way too complicated... just do what Ron says, use that glue and dilute 50/50... where are you guys getting ideas like this?!?!?!
George Russell

#29 Hworth08

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 04:43 PM

... where are you guys getting ideas like this?!?!?!

Lee Gilbert recommends the spray glue as it's already thinned making the job quick.

Is it not alright to use Lee's ideas?
Don Hollingsworth

#30 Jay Guard

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 05:50 PM

George:

Sorry to overcomplicate the procedure but I thought it may be of some help to racers less experienced than yourself. However I've revised it just for you...

1. Glue rubber donut on wheel.

2. Finished.

Happy now? :D

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#31 Cheater

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 05:51 PM

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

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#32 Fast Freddie

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 12:39 PM

You guys have spoken many times on this thread about thinning the 3M yellow adhesive with lacquer thinner. Well one small footnote on that. I used the fast drying 3M 8001 in the tube and all I got was a large lump of yellow snot. It didn't thin out at all. I've had the adhesive sitting around for about 7 months but it was never opened. When I did decide to use it I noticed two distinct colors of goo coming out of the tube, one was yellow and the other was amber. I think the glue seperated in the tube. Even mixing them together in a glass jar still didn't cure the problem. I ended up using the glue straight out of the tube after I mixed the two parts together. It dried super fast and I got the donuts on the hubs but not sure if it will hold.
Fred Younkin

#33 James Wendel

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:35 PM

Thinning the glue: I had the same problem with the "lump of yellow snot" until I started using Methyl ethyl ketone as a solvent. It works great. USE WITH ADEQUATE VENTILATION !!!

Jay's last point is important, especially when re-using old wheels: check the wheels for "true" before you start. (That really should have been Jay's first point).

In an earlier discussion, someone suggested slipping the wheels onto a length of axle-sized piano wire for gluing. A GREAT idea !!! The gluing of a dozen pair of wheels takes a matter of seconds, and you get zero glue on the set-screw bosses. A disposable foam brush does the trick. I buy them at the dollar store: 10 for a buck.
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#34 jrpav

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:41 PM

Has anyone tried using Permatex "Headliner and Carpet Adhesive"? It comes in a spray can and it's available at Automotive Parts stores. I've had good luck with it so far even on GTP and Retro cars (Wonder rubber). I just spray it into a plastic epoxy mixing cup and then apply to the rims and tires. Wait about 15 minutes and assemble with a JK tire mounting tool. No thinning required.


John Pavlick


#35 John C Martin

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 09:40 AM

No but I'm sure it works great..I to use spray adhesive ( 3m, super 77)works good you can true the tires the next day...Lowes has it..

#36 Wayne Thomas

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 03:38 AM

can e6000 be used



#37 JerseyJohn

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 11:12 AM

can e6000 be used

I wouldnt Wayne. I had problems with it. I put the rims on a rod and use super 77 and spray them. On the tires I use

 

  http://www.walmart.c...ormula/20370897


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#38 Wayne Thomas

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 01:04 AM

can i use weldwood contact cement



#39 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:28 AM

3M 8001 Super Weatherstrip Adhesive (yellow).

 

Read above post.  This is the correct glue to use.  Weldwood is not the same as  it used to be.  3M Superweatherstrip adhesive can be bought as most automotive stores and ACE hardware.


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#40 JerseyJohn

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:13 AM

Wayne IMO i have been using weldwood for years with no issues. It holds firm and doesn't desolve from cleaning the rubber with naptha.Everyone has there own system....I like the weldwood.


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#41 crazyphysicsteacher

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 02:56 PM

I have tried the 3M spray, gorilla snot and the weldwood. I have had tires peel loose when using the weldwood, it is very sensitive to wait time between application and putting the parts together. The trim adhesive 3M 80 is easiest to use, just spray on the rims then spray on a pipe cleaner to spread it inside the tire.  Then just follow Jay's steps to connect the two.  the gorilla snot needs to be thinned with lacquer thinner as it s too thick out of the tube to spread thinly and evenly. 


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#42 Phil Hackett

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 03:23 PM

The best glue is industrial use only and 3M makes it. It's now $45/quart.


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#43 John C Martin

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 03:31 PM

I just spray the 3 m in the cap, Then spread with a stiff little brush on the wheel and inside doughnut then push it over the JK. Doughnut spreader..Done.





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