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Mounting new rubber on old hubs


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#1 Mad Mexican

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 11:17 PM

Amigos,

I have clean up about thirty sets of good old tire hubs.Posted Image Looking to re-skin them with fresh rubber.
Other than rubber cement which is obvious.Posted Image What is the best adhesive to use to put fresh rubber on old tire hubs?Posted Image

Thank you in advance for your input!

Adios
Javier Zavala
In loving memory of my mother Francisca Escalante Zavala
March 24, 1927 - April 5, 2011
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#2 Mopar Rob

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 11:41 PM

3M 8001 Super Weatherstrip Adhesive (yellow).
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#3 Marty Stanley

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 05:31 AM

Either the stuff that Mopar Rob has said, also known far and wide as "Gorilla Snot" or Weldwood contact cement.

I have successfully used both. Thin with a bit of lacquer thinner to make it easier to work with.

Right now I am running a little test with a new adhesive. This is something I had used for years for attaching motorcycle hand grips. It has never failed me there and I think it is going to work very well for mounting tires as well. It makes the job much simpler. I just need to run a race with the tires and I'll know the answer. The stuff is hair spray for women. I use the extra hold and it seems to work. It is still in testing, but if you want to help me, just use it. Spread some on both rim and inside of donut and assemble. It's very easy to slide the donut in place and I've run practice laps thus far and have not had a failure. I want more testing before saying this is the way to go. But testing is showing good results thus far.
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#4 Bill from NH

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 07:03 AM

As Rob says, the Gorilla Snot works great. If you don't like the yellow color, it's now available in black, too. :)
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#5 Brian

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 08:12 AM

Amigo,

The above mentioned is all good, I've used them all. No real difference but I like the Weldwood best, seems to be easier to work for me. I use a Q-tip to apply on the hubs and in the donuts.

One thing though, when you start to size the newly-rubbered hub, you will have shrinkage do to heat generated. I personally rough the new tire down to .050/.060" away from the finish size, let the tires sit overnight (they will shrink), then stay .030" away from your finish on the second, then .010", then finish. I've scrapped a few the first time I tried the process that you're about to attempt.

Good luck,
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#6 Gary Mayeda

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 10:02 AM

The very best is contact cement made by Rubatex. But you have to buy it in quantity and its not cheap but the best.

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#7 Mr. Frank

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 10:07 AM

Yeah, Gary...Posted Image That's been the best I have used, too.. It is a bit pricey, but it goes a looonnnggg way... Posted Image

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#8 Gary Mayeda

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 11:38 AM

Also the best and easiest way to remove rubber from hubs is to soak in Coleman fuel overnight and it won't tarnish the hubs. :)

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#9 Prof. Fate

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 12:20 PM

Hi,

I soak them in a bottle of lacquer thinner to clean them, and usually use "Goo" to put new on.

Fate
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#10 Jacob Shiplet

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 12:35 PM

I actually had good luck with Goop. Comes in a blue tube, cheap and works pretty well. Armstrong Armaflex 520 is also another good choice.
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#11 JerseyJohn

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 02:18 PM

I use acetone... Rubber falls off and it dissolves all of the goo so the rims are shiny and clean.
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#12 Jay Guard

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 03:21 PM

SLOT CAR TIRE MOUNTING PROCEDURE

1. Get enough axles (old, new or bent, it doesn't matter) to mount all of the hubs you're going to glue. I put a hub on each end of the axle but if you've got enough axles one hub per axle is a little easier to handle. You'll also need adhesive (I now use 3M #80 Spray Adhesive), lacquer thinner, and a wide-mouth glass jar a few inches deep.

1a. (Optional) At this point take one of the rims and put it on your Hudy tire truer. Use a few spacers to get it centered on the truing drum. Now move the tire cutting pin so the point is right at the outer edge of the hub. This will be a big help when you start to trim the tires since this is hard to set precisely after the rubber is mounted.

1b. (Optional) Mark the position of the setscrew on the inner face of each hub (where the axle spacers would touch) with a scratch or drill "dot". You don't have to do this on SpeedShop rims since you can usually see the position of the set screw after the tire is mounted. However, a few times it has been helpful when I mounted a tire too far over the inside flange.

2. Tighten the hubs onto the axles (fairly tight) near the ends of the axle, make sure you position the hubs so the set screws line up if you put two hubs on an axle.

3. Put at least an inch or two of lacquer thinner in the jar and dip the hubs in for a few seconds. Remove, shake, and let dry a few minutes. This will degrease the hubs; don't touch them with your fingers after this.

4. I spray a small amount of 3M #80 into a shallow cup and then using a small stick or brush coat the inside of the tire donuts with a fairly thick coating of adhesive. Use too much rather than too little and make sure the entire inside diameter of the donut is coated, especially near the ends. Set them on their side to dry, it usually takes about 15 minutes but check the manufacturers instructions.

5. While the tires are drying coat the hubs with contact cement. Use the same procedure as with the donuts but try not to let the glue drip down into the set screw access hole and get in the screw. It's OK to get a thin "film" over the set screw access hole (this will usually go away as the glue dries) but it doesn't really matter since this hole will be cleaned out later anyway. Stand the hubs/axles on their end and let dry. Check the adhesive manufacturer's instructions but it's usually better for the glue to be a little bit too dry than too wet.

6. Now for the moment of truth! Take a donut and dip it in the lacquer thinner for four or five seconds. Remove and quickly slide it onto the hub with a twisting motion and align the inner end of the donut with the inner edge of the hub. It shouldn't be sticking out over the inner edge of the rim more than a 1/16" (it's OK if it does but it will take you longer to trim the tires). It should stick over the outer (open) end of the hub, depending on the donut an 1/8"or more.
***IMPORTANT NOTE*** This operation has to be done in about three to five seconds; after this the glue will grip and you won't be able to move anything. If you find that the donut wants to stick to the hub immediately you will have to leave the donut in the lacquer thinner a little longer and dip the hub, too. Another possible cause is that the glue wasn't dry enough.

7. Let the tires dry for at least three days before trimming or truing.

8. The next step is to make a hole in the donut so you can get at the set screw (this depends on the make of hub). I do this with a Dremel and a small (approx. 1/16" dia.) ball grinder but you can also use a drill bit. I hold the axle and while looking at the inside of the hub and try to drill straight down on top of the set screw. This takes a little practice but once you've done it a few times it's easier than you think. If you miss a little bit it's OK, just move a little and re-drill. I've mis-drilled tires a few times and it really doesn't seem to affect tire performance at all.

9. Now you can remove the tires from the axles and mount them on your tire truer. First cut the outside excess rubber off using the previously positioned (step 1a) cutter. Next I finish the inside edge with a quick touch of an emery board; if you mounted the rubber correctly you should have very little to remove here. You can now grind/true the outside diameter of the tire. I usually only take them down to around .850" since the tires will change size slightly over the next few weeks. This allows me to have fresh rubber on the surface when I true them to the needed size (just before a race).

10. When you have used the tire and the rubber is worn too low all you have to do is put the whole thing in the jar of lacquer thinner. In about 30+ minutes they will pop right off the hubs and be ready for another retread. You can retread them many, many times. Just check that the hubs aren't bent, the axle holes aren't worn, and the set screw can be tightened without stripping.

Final note: I know this sounds like a lot but it's not so bad after you've done it a time or two. I like to do twenty or more pairs at a time and get it all over with at one time.
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#13 Ron Hershman

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 03:51 PM

DO NOT USE WELDWOOD!!! Your dounts will come off your wheels. I learned this the hard way years ago.

3M Yellow is more than sufficent and easy to come by. Yes, Rubatex and even Armstrong may be better, but overkill and not necessary.

I always mixed it 50/50 with thinner to make it easier to use, with less "stringing".
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#14 Michael Rigsby

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 05:43 PM

Just as Ron says. I have had tires come off using Weldwood, never with the 3M Gorilla snot, and the yellow 3M is better than the black, the yellow is stronger.

Do not use the Permatex Yellow adhesive that is similar to the 3M cement, it is not as strong and will not hold. I learned that on a S16D-powered GTP when the donuts threw off in a turn.

Jay's method works well and is pretty much what I do when I do mine as I buy donuts from various suppliers.

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#15 Jay Guard

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 05:49 PM

Ron's right about the Weldwood, don't use it!

When I first started retreading tires I used Weldwood and it generally worked OK. However after some time I started to have problems with the tires coming loose at the edges. That's when I changed over to the adhesive (3M #80) that Lee Gilbert uses, problem solved!!

I think the problem is that Weldwood has changed its formula significantly over the years (due to EPA/OSHA concerns?) and now it does NOT seem to work very well.
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#16 Rick

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 06:08 PM

Possible the problem using Weldwood is that is must be mixed very well and the solids that settle on the bottom must be put back into suspension with the liquid part.

With the 3M gorilla snot is is so thick the solids cannot settle out.

And I would think no one is thinking of using the water-based Weldwood? After all gorilla snot is just Weldwood in a thicker state...
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#17 MantaRay

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 06:14 PM

That's when I changed over to the adhesive (3M #80) that Lee Gilbert uses, problem solved!!

Jay,

Do you spray it? If so, how?
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#18 Pablo

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 07:17 PM

Re-read Jay's instruction #4, Ray Ray... :)
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#19 Ron Hershman

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 07:22 PM

The problem with Weldwood is that it's too thin and made for a dummy to install carpet in his house and that's about all it's good for.

Weldwood is junk... period for our use. Do not waste your time and money using Weldwood.

#20 Brian

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 07:39 PM

I haven't had any problem yet, but I'm glad this was brought up for my own information. I'm currently out of contact cement so I'll give the 3M #80 a try.

Not interested in having any failures,
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#21 slotcarone

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 08:10 PM

:D The number for the 3M yellow used to be 8001 - is it still the same?

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#22 Mopar Rob

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 08:22 PM

Yellow is 8001, black is 8008.
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#23 Mad Mexican

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 10:39 PM

Amigos,

I like to thank all that input into this thread, especially Jay Guard with the great tutorial.Posted Image

I have been racing slots for only eight years and I kept a majority of my good spent hubs. Posted Image

For those that I race with hopefully this works. It would be embarassing for those tires to fly of the hubs! Posted Image

I thank you all again!

Adios, Amigos...
Javier Zavala
In loving memory of my mother Francisca Escalante Zavala
March 24, 1927 - April 5, 2011
Vaya Con Dios

#24 Cheater

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 10:31 AM

Jay's write-up deserves to be saved for posterity. I'm pinning this thread....
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#25 Noose

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 12:08 PM

Jay Guard's "article" can now also be found in the "How To" section of the IRRA website. Ron's article has been added too!:

Making-Mounting Tires

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