39 replies to this topic

[Frankie Schaffier]

Has any thought been giving to allowing 3/32" axles in the GT1 cars?

I'm just getting back into the sport and it just seems silly to have to double up parts you need in your box. If I want to run both GT1 and GP10, I'll need 3/32" and 1/8" spur gears, tires, axles, and oilites. The 1/8" stuff isn't any cheaper then the 3/32" parts, I don't see the advantage. Was someone just trying to clear the 1/8" stuff off their shelf when this started?

How about from the track/shop view? They also have to have all the different kinds of tires, assortment of spurs along with axles in two different sizes when they really shouldn't have to.

[flem1959]

I think the 1/8" axle rule was written with the intent of the GT1 being a beginner class and people running RTR cars. We all know how those things go.

The dumb thing to me is the 8/28 gear ratio rule. We run Deathstars on a Hillclimb at 10/28 and they run fine.

[Cap Henry]

Here is what I believe the reasoning was, Frankie.

When the GT1 Class was started in the OCC/TRRS style, it was a beginner class, and the RTR cars at that time came with 1/8" axle and the Parma 501 motor. The 48 pitch gears and spec gearing make it a little easier for beginners.

This class has gone through a couple changes over the years, and eventually it has all gone back to the orginal formula.

Frank will have to chime in on ideas for changes.

Hope this helps, Frankie.

[Frankie Schaffier]

Mike / Cap,

Thanks for your input and yes it helps understand somewhat. But in reality is that's what's really happening? Are new racers buying showcase cars and running them? And I don't think they can, can they? Don't the 501's come with 9 tooth pinions vs. the required 8 tooth.

The idea was not a bad one to begin with, but it looks like it has not panned out. How many "new" reacers are running showcase cars? If I'm wrong, please set me straight. As I'm still the new guy and can get away with asking stupid things under the "new guy" rule.

[flem1959]

Hopefully the rules will be updated soon.

JK sells a RTR with a Falcon 7. That would be a good cheap class. GT1 with Falcon and any gear ratio.
Same chassis, bodies, and parts as now.

I have no problem with 1/8" axle but I would run 3/32".

The Falcons are more consistent and way faster. Let everybody buy one at the track on raceday and keep it. The track owner would make a little more on raceday.

[Bill from NH]

Rules can be whatever you want to make them. We were running a GT1 class back in 2002 or 2003 on our then 185' Engleman. Motors were Plafit Cheetahs (this is before Falcons were ever thought of), JK was the only manufacturer making a GT1 body, and we used a 9/30 or 9/31 spec gear ratio with 1/8" axles. Since most of us also raced 4" NASCAR, 1/8" axles and 48 pitch gears didn't present many problems.

If I was building a GT1 car today, my body choices are wider, and I'd want to run 3/32" axles and 64 pitch gears.

[flem1959]

I think we are referring to the Ohio Challenge Cup Rules as they are presently written.

GT1 would be a great class with Falcon 7 and open gear ratios. Cheap, easy to build and drive, and pretty fast.

You don't even need a fancy controller.

[Jerry Ward]

I think we are referring to the Ohio Challenge Cup Rules as they are presently written.

GT1 would be a great class with Falcon 7 and open gear ratios. Cheap, easy to build and drive, and pretty fast.

You don't even need a fancy controller.

I agree 100% and hope next year there will be some changes in gear's and 3/32 axle and it's time to try a differn't motor. Think the class will grow and more will run in GT-1 !! Jerry

[Frankie Schaffier]

Yep… I was referring to the OCC. Maybe I should have been clear, though I thought posting on the OCC forum would have done so.. Sorry if I wasn't clear and caused confusion.

I don't have any experience with the motor, I can only go by what I have been told and seen. My understanding is that coming out of the package there are crap 501's, good 501's and real good 501's. So for someone that can afford to buy a bunch, you could do just that. Buy 10, pick the best one and sell the rest or what ever. Kinda defeats the purpose.

Then a new guy comes along has a crap 501, get smoked week after week then decides this isn't his cup of tea? Possible?

[Mad Mexican]

Racers,

Opinions are good but rules are the rules. So right now GT1 is an entry level fun class for everyone from beginners to season vets for TRRS / now OCC.
At the time (2000) the Deathstar was the most consistent at the time when the rules where drawn up. The 8/28 gearing was put in place so an entry level driver could drive the car comfortably. These rules were put in place over eight years ago. The hand out motor for the TRRS/OCC was put in place so it would be a level playing field for EVERYONE. Yes I'm not naive they are motor Gurus out there who can spinkle magic dust on those deathstars and make them faster HENCE the hand out motor rule came in effect for that class. To run this class is like the lottery hoping the one you get would be fast enought to hang with the most experience racers. I agree NOW the falcon 7 motors is faster but again like the death star you have to buy about 10 to get one that will run with the FAST crowd. Like everything in life you have choices.
If you don't want to get involve with 1/8 axles then you can get into the other two classes Group 10 and GTP. In OCC there is all the belly aching about the axles, about the motors, the body styles etc. etc. BUT you know what when you go back and look what class fields the most cars, I give you a guess GT1 does What class has the closes racing guess what GT1 OCC style does. And don't forget who backs OCC...................... Parma does! When JK Products wants to sponsor the OCC. OCC will bend their ear to listen simple...No!

Adios

[Frankie Schaffier]

Like everything in life you have choices.
If you don't want to get involve with 1/8 axles then you can get in the other two classes Group 10 and GTP. In OCC there is all the belly aching about the axles, about the motors, the body styles etc. etc. BUT you know what when you go back and look what class fields the most cars.......I give you a guess GT1 does What class has the closes racing guess what GT1 OCC style does. And don't forget who backs OCC...................... Parma does. When JK Products wants to sponsor the OCC. OCC will bend ther ear listen simple...No! Adios

Wow. I guess my simple question touched on an old raw nerve. Well then back to my original question.. I guess you have giving it some though? Thanks for you kind answer.

[Mr. Frank]

Very well put Jay......



Mr. Frank

[Mad Mexican]

Wow. I guess my simple question touched on an old raw nerve. Well then back to my original question.. I guess you have giving it some though? Thanks for you kind answer.

Amigo Frankie

I did not what to blow you out of the water. It just that when you got something that is working fairly well in last ten years why mess it up!
Just the people who laid down the rules ten years ago has put some thought into this. To get back into the sport, (I remember when I got back into this ten years ago.) GT1 was an afforable class to get into. If you know nothing about motor building again GT1 was the class to get to. Those who wanted to build motors guess what there is Group 10 and GTP. Build away and spend money! You know the old saying the more money you spend the faster you go! OCC gives everyone a decent playing field to play from. May be a novice or the season vet there's a class for you! Again Frank I did not want you to think I was picking on you!

Adios

[Jerry Ward]

Don't recall anybody ever asking JK to sponcer OCC my be wrong though!! I don't think the axle and gear change would be that much of a deal next year and I would much rather have a falcon hand out than a 501. 2000 was a long time ago and some time change is good and fresh . So being said that will see what next year brings!! For now race on and have some fun!!! Jerry

[Mad Mexican]

Amigo Jerry

I spoke to the old old guard of TRRS. They went to the major three and the only one who would support the TRRS was PARMA.
There was no response from the other two manufactures. I have no problem what motor to run or axles, but remember sponorship is KEY! If JK or ProSlot came in with an offer I'm sure RT93 Frank and Momma will listen, Money TALKS! It just that simple.
We have not run the second OCC race yet, next season problems can wait. Like I said money talks I gotta find a job to support this habit!

Adios

[Rob Voska]

The original question was about 3/32 axles. We all know that in order to get rich you just open a Slot Car Raceway. Question: Would cutting their inventory help or hurt them? Sure they would have to stock a minimum of 1/8" stuff for someone bringing in an older car but there axles, bushings, spacers, gears, tires would rotate stock much faster & simplify things.

Lets look at this. Parma, Alpha, JK tires and there are more out there than that in just 2 -3 hubs sizes& 2 dia & don't forget treated & Retro tires lets say a store wants 10 sets in stock. Well it's not 10 sets it's 60-100 sets of tires when you start taking sizes & hubs into the equasion. At distributor discount it's still a lot of money. And that don't count gears etc..... Now you want the track to have that stock for 1/8 axles also? That's just plain stupid.

Besides the beginner now has a body & motor change & he's running G10.

[flem1959]

I have been racing slot cars longer than most of you. (1966).
The Parma Deathstar is the most inconsistent motor I have ever had to race.
I have been racing it at Fantasy in Rochester for the past year.
I have some of the fastest cars there but I think it is an absolutely awful motor for beginner racing.
The Falcon 7 is very fast and consistent.
I have only bought 4 but all 4 are fast.
They sell for about $12 dollars or less.
Things have changed in the last 10 years of racing.
Things change every week.
That`s why we race.
It`s time for a change.

[flem1959]

You should go to 3 Minute Heats for your series races and have Double Points Enduro at the Last Race.
Ditch the Crapstar and go with the Falcon7 for GT1.
It would be worth driving 3 to 5 hours each way to race...

[Mad Mexican]

The original question was about 3/32 axles. We all know that in order to get rich you just open a Slot Car Raceway. Question: Would cutting their inventory help or hurt them? Sure they would have to stock a minimum of 1/8" stuff for someone bringing in an older car but there axles, bushings, spacers, gears, tires would rotate stock much faster & simplify things.

Lets look at this. Parma, Alpha, JK tires and there are more out there than that in just 2 -3 hubs sizes& 2 dia & don't forget treated & Retro tires lets say a store wants 10 sets in stock. Well it's not 10 sets it's 60-100 sets of tires when you start taking sizes & hubs into the equasion. At track cost of about $6.60 that's $396 to $660 in inventory. And that don't count gears etc..... Now you want the track to have that stock for 1/8 axles also? That's just plain stupid.

It all depends on what the raceways wish to do in their own house classes of racing. But I know one thing if a racer puts a 3/32 axle in a 4.5" FCR it ain't going to last very long! Like it was stated before lets get through this season and I'm sure the OCC raceways will get together and review this and go foward. But 1/8 axle does and will have some purpose in some sort of class racing. Like I said before its your choice to run what you want to run! It's still a free country so far that I know!

Adios

[Rob Voska]

Motors...... who knows if 501's are any good or not. When you are forced to run a fixed gear ratio that is outside the power band of the motor the only thing that matters is if your motor turns more RPM than the next. 16D motors are torque motors. If you get a motor that is closer to being in balance it will end up being superior to an unbalanced motor. When it was TRRS the NY / PA Thruway series ran 9/28 & the racing was very close. I remember running the King Cobra in PA & having 5 guys within .10 on their fast laps.

Also a sticker does not make a motor legal because you can just have your own printed as I have seen. Now go look in the mirror & look yourself in the eye & tell yourself I'm not right. Tell the beginner he's not being taken advantage of. Tell the beginner he can't change gears to find the powerband of his motor and he can just go buy another and another until he finds the magic bullet motor. He's much better off spending his money on a G10 or a Falcon..... unless he looks on epay & that don't keep the raceway open now does it. Ask yourself this.... do the good motors even make it on the wall?

Why not use this year productively & try open gearing at weekly races or something, anything because the only thing 8/28 does is continue in the path of failure.. Who knows where the ratio will end up but I'll bet $20 the fastest ratio for an off the wall motor is not 8/28. I'm as cheap as they come so I bet I keep my money....... now prove me wrong. Unless you are going to continue to do the wrong thing in Bear's memory..........

I got Frankie started & told him point blank he's not running GT1. So much for your great beginners class & looking at any results I don't see many new names.

[flem1959]

X2 on the last post.

I am not trying to be negative.
I got back into Slotcar racing last year and I have been forced to run the Crapstar because that`s what they have been running at the closest track. (2 1/2 hrs from home).
We have finally convinced Rodger to move into the 21st Century and go with the Falcon7.
I like simple racing, I don`t want to spend a grand to get into a "motor program".
I love slotcar racing and I will do what I have to do to win, but the simpler, the better.
The Falcon makes it an even playing field as far as I am concerned.

Back to 1/8 axles, I think they are fine and 48 pitch plastic gears work great.
There are plenty of good tires available for 1/8 axles.

[Mad Mexican]

Well it looks like you excerising your freedom of choice that this great country has given you.
That's why OCC gives you three different classes to choose from. No one is twisting ones arm to race a hand out motor with fix gearing at a OCC event. There is a lot sponsor events that someone finds a fault with. Nothing perfect, If one chooses to race they will have to follow the rules for this season at a OCC event. What you guys do at your home raceway have at it! That's why raceways have house classes but again the house classes will have rules that all might not agree on. So this is just turning into a belly bouncing contest, if your belly is bigger bounce on!

[flem1959]

I am just trying to give some constructive ideas to build on for the future.
I want Slotcar Racing to get more popular.
That`s going to happen if we make it easier to go fast and be competitive out of the bag.
Let the Track Owner sell motors that run good for $12.
Who is that going to hurt?

[flem1959]

And let the racer, even the beginner, learn how to gear his car to the track.

Are you going to run the same gear on a Hillclimb and a King?

A ten year old could figure that out. Of course not.

[Mad Mexican]

Well with that said if you want to race an OCC events then Group 10 and GTP is your cup of tea.
GT1 RIGHT NOW is just an IROC event with fix gearing. Want to expand the power band with motor building, gearing and keeping a 3/32 axle Group 10 and GTP will offer you that pretty simple. The season has started the OCC event rules are in place, again after the season I'm sure the raceways that sponsors the OCC will review all that has been said about the GT1 class. BUT for now it is what is for this season! No use getting ones shorts all binded up!

Adios