62 replies to this topic

[Steve Deiters]

At Bob Haines' original raceway - Cincinnati Slot Racing Center - we had all three voltages - 12, 18, and 36. You just dialed in what you wanted and went - 18 and 36 volt were at your own risk!

There was a very low voltage "return" track so your buddy could pull your car out of the chute put your car on it for a return trip and another run down the dragstrip.

Let me tell you, a 12 volt motor went like a bat outa hell when you ran it on 36 volts!!

[loudspeaker]

Let me tell you, a 12 volt motor went like a bat outa hell when you ran it on 36 volts!!

Hi,

At the point in time being discussed, the Ram armatures that were being used were actually 6 volt versions, as were the Pittman DC85s. It was a lot of fun.

Somewhere around here I have the remains of the magwinder (Kemtron plates and a Ram armature) that I won Top Eliminator with at the last MINRA mail-in drag meet in 1965 I believe.

[TSR]

There was a very low voltage "return" track so your buddy could pull your car out of the chute put your car on it for a return trip and another run down the dragstrip.

Another step towards causing slot car racers to be overweight!

Somewhere around here I have the remains of the magwinder (Kemtron plates and a Ram armature) that I won Top Eliminator with at the last MINRA mail-in drag meet in 1965 I believe.

Sandy, I think that it was in 1966. I will have to re-read my own book pages to find out; I wrote about that a year ago and I forgot!

[Uncle Fred]

I was very impressed with the California magwinder scene and built a total of five dragsters including a couple of short wheelbase funny cars.

The best strip was at 1st Place in Astoria, NY, smooth black Formica with brass strips for contact... no braid, three car batteries in series. The lower classes ran on less voltage but the dragsters ran 36 volts. No controllers, just a large black button you leaned on when the light went green.

There was serious competition to break the 1 second barrier. Bruce Clark was the only one to do it with .98 if I remember correctly.

Ram also made 3 volt arms.

[TSR]

From what he told me, this is the only drag-racing car that Howie Ursaner raced. I cannot remember if he also built it or if Sandy did:

[Uncle Fred]

Since were on the subject, check out this link: http://bracket500.co...intage/vin.html

[Steve Deiters]

Sandy brings up an intersting point that I have always wondered about those old padlock motors and K&B kit sidewinder cars. Just what constitutes a 6 volt motor or a 12 volt motor?

[TSR]

The way they were wound I think... and a strange way of rating motors by voltage instead of resistance used by slot car companies.

Fred, the website in question is well known, but has been neglected lately...

[loudspeaker]

From what he told me, this is the only drag-racing car that Howie Ursaner raced. I cannot remember if he also built it or if Sandy did:

Hi, Howie built it. I had another, built about the same time, that my painter threw out 10 years ago, sigh. Sandy

[Uncle Fred]

The resistance was different but I think voltage was a more understandable term. The last magwinder I bulit was a Ram 857 with a 6 volt and idler gears to move the motor forward so less nose weight was needed. It was stolen. Maybe it will show up on ebay someday . Maybe it's in some museum already !

[tonyp]

I am sure it means nothing. If one person said theirs was a 6 volt, then mine was a 4 volt. I remember being impressed with the 3 volt Aristocraft rewound armatures for the 16-Ds we used to use.

[TSR]

Hi, Howie built it

Thanks Sandy! I will soon get to it and do a bit of restoration. It needs rear tires and a silver-solder repair on the chassis.

[Uncle Fred]

Tony, the boxes were actually marked with the voltage. The lower the number the thicker the wire (always a different color) and fewer turns. Today with open arms the just tell you the wind, an 84 is 18 turns of 24 wire etc.

[tonyp]

I know, but it means nothing in real life. Marketing tool.... Lol.

[TSR]

Exactly... preying on ignorance.

[MSwiss]

The two most popular 36D's at our local raceway were the Cox TTX(?)250 and the Classic 360. I seem to remember the TTX250 was rated at 12v and the 360 was 8v. Maybe it was perception, but the locals thought the 360 was faster.

I remember going to the other raceway down the street and seeing rewound 16D arms or motors that were described as 1 volt and going "WOW!" IIRC, they were either Dyna-Rewinds or French.

[TSR]

Mabuchi issued three versions of the FT36. The very first were the rather dull blue Revell SP600, that was also the same as the gold Russkit "33", Classic 250 and Cox TTX200. all endbell-side drive, no heat sinks, all the same arm specification. All had brown armature wire.

The second generation was named FT36D and appeared in 1965, and again all were the same: Cox TTX250, Classic 360, Monogram X250 etc. All these had a larger brown armature wire. The only difference was the color of the can. Mabuchi in fact DICTATED to the manufacturers what they wanted, and that was it.

So for someone to claim that one brand would have been faster than another at that time was simply the result of period manufacturers propaganda, because all were... the same! So the voltage "rating" worked, in the mind of racers...

The third generation of the FT36 appeared in 1966, and those had the same cans and endbells as the 1965 versions but were wound with one-size larger RED armature wire. Most of the manufacturers did not change the name of their motors, but advertised their later issued kits as having "improved" performance. New manufacturers such as BZ never used the previous versions, so all the white BZ motors with red wire are faster than any of the "brown-wire" versions.

But the very authoritative Mabuchi made a lot of enemies in the process, and companies such as Cox, Russkit, and others began using other motors, some of their own manufacturing. By 1968, Mabuchi had reclaimed part of these losses with newer motors but the market was tanking and by the end of that year, Mabuchi was pretty much out of the slot car market.

[Steve Deiters]

Were the Cox "Nascar Series" of motors (I believe there was a 16-D and 36-D size-hole on one side solid on the other) latter in Cox commercial era made by Mabuchi or someone else? I seem to remember they were a hotter wind, but by the time they came out motor specialists like Mura, Lenz, Champion, and many many others were starting to take hold.

[TSR]

Steve,

The Cox motors, the 3500 and 3600 series NASCAR and Super NASCAR were produced in Hong Kong by "Cox International", in fact a manufacturing outfit for not only Cox but a myriad of other toy makers.

Mabuchi was no longer in the cards for Cox after their arrogant price increase of 1966.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi,

There were manufacturer sourced hotter arms from Classic and Monogram that looked stock, but were in fact hotter. I don't know where they came from. Simply, the standard 65 wind, 36D started with the traditional 34 wind. The endbell drive K&B "8 volt" as well as the "6 volt" Monogram and Classic arms measure as 32s winds. The same folk also did "4.5" and "3" volt winds which were 30s winds.

Offhand, I don't remember ads for them or any of that stuff. I still have a few of these arms NOS on cards and loose. I have been using them up over the years!

Fate

[TSR]

There were manufactured sourced hotter arms from Classic and Monogram that looked stock, but were in fact hotter.

Correct, but they were sold separately.

[olderracer]

Philippe:

I am absolutely delighted that those cars wound up at the museum.

Regards,

Jack

[TSR]

You and I! I was hoping that Scott could swing it. Now between these and the others already there by famous racers, the drag-racing display will be superb.

[Foamy]

Just what constitutes a 6 volt motor or a 12 volt motor?

Back then, a "12 volt" motor had 2 ohms per coil. A "6 volt" motor had 1 ohm per coil, and so on...

[boxerdog]

I am very happy to see that stuff preserved... it brings back a lot of memories of time spent trying to build cars with less than optimal tools or skills! Our strip did not rely on reflexes, you lined up the cars and threw a toggle switch for both lanes, no lights or anything.

The voltage ratings were just a marketing ploy, and I think also an excuse for the manufacturer when the windings and comms flew off or melted... "Well, you know it's only meant to run on 3 volts...".

I still have a Russkit, and some repro K&Bs that were made by Mark Adams a few years back.