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The two-rail chassis revolution


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#1 dc-65x

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 06:58 PM

I’m in the mood for some early anglewinder bidness with big, tall 16Ds set in the heavy chassis at huge angles. So I busted out my handy dandy Model Racing Journal DVD. They are available in fully-indexed format at the link below:

MODEL CAR JOURNAL and MODEL RACING JOURNAL

As I looked through the race reports these three cars caught my attention. If you read Mike Morrissey’s text under the pictures they sure caught his attention, too:

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Congratulations to Mike Staskie and his winning rig on the left but I’m interested in the Bob Emott built cars in the center and on the right (I think LASCM has the Bob Emott raced chassis in its collection).

In a sea of three and four railers with motor boxes and plumbers mounted on the chassis Bob Emott creates a two railer with half rails instead of a motor box and the plumber mounted on the arm.

Was Bob the first to do this? I’ll leave that for the historians among you ;) . For me, if I get in my “Way Back Machine”, return to Feb. 30, 1969, and read the following Hinsdale race report for the first time... HE’S THE MAN! :D

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I advanced my “Way Back Machine” a few MRJ issues to the April 15, 1969, coverage of the Mura Spectacular. Seems that Bob Emott was laid up and he loaned Chris Vitucci what Mike Morrissey called “the fastest stable of cars in the nation"! :shok: Chris set a new national King track qualifying record of 4.81... with the two-rail car Bob loaned Howie Ursaner back at the Hinsdale race in Feb!

I highlighted in yellow Morrissey’s description of how Bob built his cars. There’s no doubt in my mind that he thought Bob was THE MAN, too. Check out what he had to say:

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Tony P posted some great pictures of Bob’s chassis like the ones below.
(Photos courtesy of Tony P):

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Here’s the link to Tony P’s post:

The Emott Archives

The Good Dokktor also posted pictures of the collection here:

The Emott Collection

Time for me to start building :) ...

Rick Thigpen
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#2 tonyp

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 07:16 PM

First ever non-motor box cars I ever saw were Jerry Brady's, probably because Jerry could not bend a motor box.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#3 tonyp

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 07:23 PM

Check the issue that has Sandy's puzzle pan. There is a picture of one of Jerry's cars with his typical center section, no motor box. What would you expect from the person who used no motor bracket on his inline. LOL...

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#4 68Caddy

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 07:47 PM

First of all, thanks for the link of the DVD. Great story.

Got to buy that DVD for sure.

Nesta
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#5 dc-65x

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 07:48 PM

First ever non-motor box cars I ever saw were Jerry Brady's, probably because Jerry could not bend a motor box.

I feel his pain :laugh2: . I have a heck of a time with them, too!

Check the issue that has Sandy's puzzle pan. There is a picture of one of Jerrys cars with his typical center section, no motor box. What would you expect from the person who used no motor bracket on his inline.

Thanks, Tony, I'll find and post the picture of Jerry's car...

It's a great DVD, Nesta. You'll enjoy it for sure. ;)

Rick Thigpen
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#6 Bill from NH

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 07:57 PM

I'll second that Nesta! Actually, Steve sells two different DVDs. One is primarily about inline cars, the other mainly anglewinders. I'd recommend both. :)

Bill Fernald
 

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#7 dc-65x

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 08:08 PM

Here's Jerry's car:

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Is he using half rails or is that outside rail going from the front axle all the way to the rear axle tube?

I found this picture in the next MRJ issue... looks like half rails to me???

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#8 tonyp

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 09:08 PM

Half rails. The outer rail goes along the half rail and up to the front axle.

Not sure if Jerry was actually using a Dremel by this time. According to Bob Emott, Jerry never knew about the cut-off disks and would just dyke off the wire and file the ends. If he needed a hole drilled, Jerry would use an X-Acto and just carve out the hole. Of course Ajax and an SOS pad were foreign to him.

As bad as his stuff looked he built some really good stuff and came up with a lot of stuff first, like the steel center section, flat wire I believe, and along with Bob Emott, the 3/32" axles just to mention a few things...

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#9 endbelldrive

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 09:26 PM

Not much room for the new wider 11/16" tires and the endbell drive!

What is interesting is the endbell drive two-railers which were built after the West Coasters had already switched to can drive. PVA also added an extra kink in the left half rail on John Cukras' car. Tricky stuff. :D
Bob Suzuki

#10 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 11:15 AM

Bob was "THE MAN" from the time he came up with the pair of DC196 Cobras we took to Wiles Barre. These cars dominated East Coast racing for years.

Then, with the advent of anglewinders he again always had the best cars, with the finest craftsmanship. I had a great time racing with Bob; he is the best.
Howie Ursaner

#11 Prof. Fate

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 04:14 PM

Hi,

I didn't know this twin rail thing was an issue! While I copied a couple chassis like everyone, I had always used steel rails. I have survivor inlines from '65 that are twin rail with piano wire. I didn't like the way rod bent! I wreck a lot. But I don't remember there being an issue.

Fate
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#12 dc-65x

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 05:37 PM

The anglewinder two-rail chassis with half rails instead of a motor box and the plumber mounted on the 1-1/4" drop arm instead of the chassis is an icon. It was THE basic chassis layout from early 1969 until when... maybe late 1972 and Philippe's Diamond? It seems like this basic layout dominated chassis design for about four years when previously chassis layouts were changing for almost every race.

As Mike Morrissey said in the opening of his Mar. 15, 1969, construction article, "We're in the middle of another chassis revolution, gang."

Here is that article, The New Two-Rail Chassis

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#13 Prof. Fate

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 01:45 PM

Hi,

What I am saying is that most of our early anglewinders were modified inlines which were commonly twin rail. In SoCal, the Jail Door multiple rod frames were more common than in my circles.

Again, like the anglewinder thing itself, there was so much going on that never made the mags, that the best you can say is that Morrissey revolutionized something in SoCal.

Fate
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#14 TSR

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 03:16 PM

It is true to say that the two-rail design for anglewinder chassis did not originate with the very first ones used April 20, 1968, in the very first anglewinder race ever. Indeed, most of the chassis used in that famous race were of the three-rail design, and their front-end was vastly different from the much sturdier Emott chassis design shown above.
It took a long time for the two-rail design to be introduced, because for a while (all of 1968 and part of 1969), the number of rails actually increased rather than decreased...

#15 tonyp

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 03:30 PM

The two rail went from brass and wire to dual wire very quickly... two issues of the newspaper later Jerry Brady was running a two rail flat wire car...

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#16 dc-65x

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 06:30 PM

The two rail went from brass and wire to dual wire very quickly...


Cool, so I'll build an early two-rail brass and wire car first :) . I'll use a big old 1/16" thick Cobra drop arm, solid pans with the hinge tube sitting on top and an end bell drive “Wish I had a Kean Kan” motor. I'm going approach the build as if I was back in the day in So Cal drooling over these just published issues of Model Racing Journal. It's good to have a “Way Back Machine” ;) .

So, after reading the tech sheet for Bob and Howie's cars at the Hinsdale race I came up with these parts to build a motor. Not a Kean Can motor unfortunately but rather an early Champion can with the funky bearing and no side vents, Champion DZ magnets with 2-piece shim, Mura end bell and hardware and a Thorp D27-28 arm. Pictures to follow.....

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#17 TSR

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 07:59 PM

Rick,
At the time, Bob Kean used the Cox NASCAR can, cut on top and bottom and vented, with ARCO mags with the second type shim and a Mura white 16D endbell to build his motors. So you could in principle, make one to look very close to the real thing. Please let me know if you need detailed pictures. As far as the chassis in that race, it LOOKS like we have at least one of the two, that of Ursaner, that use a reversed endbell drive.
Regards,

#18 Noose

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:22 PM

Wow..Howie and Vitucci running my bodies in the race listed first. Cool!

This is my last car from that time frame that Bob built.It looks close but Tony will have to chime in here on the exact time frame. If I could only find a motor for it I would put it all back together again. I remember running the McLaren body on it.
emott-1.jpg

Emott-2.jpg

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#19 slotcarone

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 11:58 PM

:D Nice classic chassis Joe!!! I bet our own Vinny Spina will have the correct motor for it!!

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#20 tonyp

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 07:18 AM

That has to be Right before we went to 3/32 axles.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#21 Noose

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 07:57 AM

Yes this does have the 1/8th axles.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#22 tonyp

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 08:10 AM

Because of the LCG pan stops, i'd date that chassis to right after the Cobra Mura race. The layout is the same as what Bob was running then, but he was not using the LCG pan stops yet. If I were to guess I would say fall 1969. Maybe your car from the Phaze III race at Berwyn Sept, 69...

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
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#23 Noose

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 08:11 AM

Sounds about right.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#24 dc-65x

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 12:12 PM

Very nice chassis Noose. It's nice to see one that's been so well cared for it almost looks it was just made. I love the "square" solder joints :wub: .

Thanks for the motor info Philippe. I realize I've not chosen wisely my motor components. I'm starting over! :laugh2:

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#25 TSR

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 09:14 PM

Maybe your car from the Phaze III race at Berwyn Sept, 69...

Indeed. It appears that this is the car used by Noose on September 13, 1969 at Holiday raceway in Berwyn, PA. Noose, the motor was a Champion 535-based lump, I can get you one looking the part if you need. Call me. Call me what, that's your option! :laugh2:

Rick, I will get you a decent pic of a period Kean with the Cox can.





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