28 replies to this topic

[Jerry Kulich]

To all of our valued customers.

Effective 1/18/11, regretfully and due to circumstances beyond our control, JK Products will no longer be selling the Falcon 7 motor nor Ready To Run cars with the Falcon 7 motor installed.

We are happy to announce that the new JK Hawk 7 motor is available from all of our distributors and that our RTR cars will now come with the new JK Hawk 7 motor installed.

The new JK Hawk 7 motor is higher quality and better value for your customers who already may be using Falcon 7 motors now and in the past.

We appreciate all of your past business and hope to serve you better in the future with improved and better products as we always have in the past.

Thank you for all of your fantastic support.

Jerry and Maria Kulich

JK Products

[68Caddy]

Thanks, Jerry, for the heads-up on the new motor, great to hear it's a better motor!

Now we have to wait for approval from D3 at BP?

Nesta

[Ron Hershman]

Now we have to wait for approval from D3 at BP?

Methinks you will be waiting a long time for that to happen.

[Roger Schmitt]

For what Ron? The Hawk 7 or the Falcon 7?

[Ron Hershman]

The Hawk 7... the Falcon 7 is already approved for some D3 classes.

[GearBear]

The new JK Hawk 7 motor is higher quality and a better value...

Jerry,

I truly wish the motor was higher quality. But that is not my experience so far. In the past two years, buying over 50 Falcon 7s, I NEVER had one bad out of the package. I have now purchased five Hawk 7s and three of them have been bad. Sorry, but that is real life data I have personally observed. And I have personally witnessed three other failures as well.

[flem1959]

I have only bought two Hawk 7s so far but they are both fast.

Jerry, Thanks for producing and selling some great products.

[Greg VanPeenen]

Jerry,

I guess the Michigan Retro Racing Association, was ahead of the curve on this one.

We have been using the new Hawk 7 in our Retro Flexi class for months now. As far as we are concerned it is a superior motor and that is why we are using them. We have used a lot of these motors and have never had one not run when new.

I myself have lost two races, that I was leading, from windings coming loose. I have narrowed the problem down. It was my fault. I was trying to run the same gears as a Falcon. It is not a good idea to try this as they need one less tooth on the pinion. They run just as fast that way and seem to last.

I have one in a loaner car for five series races, two warm-up races, and a lot of practice laps and is still going. The brushes are almost gone but it still runs.

Thank you for a great motor. I am looking forward to testing the original Hawk set-up with a Koford and Pro Slot arm in it.

Regards,

Greg VanPeenen
MRRA

[Ron Hershman]

I can testify that the Hawk 7 motor when geared correctly is a bit faster than a "great" Falcon 7 after racing with the MRRA gang last month.

I had a pretty sporty (good Chinese, as Swiss would say) Falcon 7 motor and geared correctly, but the rest of the field was running the Hawk 7 and most of the Flexi cars were Van Peenen "loaners". Cap Henry blew up due to incorrect gearing and he would have cleaned my clock had he not blown up.

I held off Rick Davis for the win, but one more heat and Rick would have beat me with his Hawk 7 powered ride.

[marc]

Thanks again, Jerry, for excellent products... BTW I've been using Hawks since they came out in every thing from Womps to wings, no failures and plenty fast.

Just like anything follow the instructions.

[MantaRay]

I can testify that the Hawk 7 motor when geared correctly is a bit faster than a "great" Falcon 7 after racing with the MRRA gang last month.

Ron, what do you feel is "correct" gearing for the Falcon 7? What kind of track was the MRRA running on?

[Ron Hershman]

Well, in a Flexi car... 12/37-39 and while a 13 will be faster... it is a bit risky in finishing a race.

The MRRA race was held on Gerding King G2.

[okibono]

Does anyone have any pics of the hawk 7? Thnx

[Roger Schmitt]

[DOCinCanton]

I want to thank Jerry and acknowledge JK's dominence in the slot car world that I rejoined March of last year. I also want to thank Jerry for his sponsorship of the Florida MySeries GT1 program.

It is hard to escape the fact the JK products are of top quality and the supply is plentiful. I got started last year with the GT1 class and JK's C11 chassis, the Falcon 7 motor, gears, tires, guides, and bodies. JK has got it all, and I have been very satisfied with these products. I have raced several C11s in 4" NASCAR, GT1, GTP, and Retro Flexi GT here in Florida. Recently, I have purchased two X25 chassis, these are pretty awesome.

I have published some negativity concerning the Hawk7 motor, but that issue is an isolated case, and I think with some more testing, my reliability issues will go away.

Once again, Jerry: Thank you for the great products and your sponsorship of the GT1 race program here in Florida.

[MG Brown]

Our own Mr. Swiss published a useful photo study of the visual differences between the Hawk and Falcon motors in July 2010 if I remember correctly.

Perhaps he can be persuaded to replicate the information here or on the JK products website.

IIRC the at-a-glance visual differences were thickness/number of arm laminations, can weight, and can bearing enclosure

[32Deuce]

Ron, what do you feel is "correct" gearing for the Falcon 7? What kind of track was the MRRA running on?

Well, in a Flexi car... 12/37-39 and while a 13 will be faster... it is a bit risky in finishing a race.

So, why did my JK Flexi Indy car with Falcon 7 motor come with a 11/36?

Is there a range of ratios that can be used on the two motors without problems?

Just like anything follow the instructions.

Who's instructions do we follow?

Z

[Ron Hershman]

So, why did my JK Flexi Indy car with Falcon 7 motor come with a 11/36?

Is there a range of ratios that can be used on the two motors without problems?

Maybe because a Indy Flexi car works better with a 11 tooth pinon? Maybe for a bit more longevity???

Falcon 7's with 64 pitch gears...... 12 or 11 tooth pinions depending on the track.

Hawk 7's with 64 pitch gears.....11 or 10 tooth pinions depending on the track.

[TSR]

I think that it's time to invest in slot car pinions stocks on Wall Street...

[32Deuce]

Thanks Ron, I kind of figured it might be better for Jerry if he didn't gear his RTR cars on the "edge," just makes better business sense.

Z

[Tim Tompkins]

We have run thousands of laps at my raceway with 12/39 as a spec. gear without any problems at all. The Hawk 7 is certainly faster than the Falcons we were running.

I spent a lot of time trying different ratios before I settled on 3.25 as the best balance of heat and speed. We have had one fail during a race since last summer but it was one of my hand-outs with zillions of test laps. Some are a bit faster than some others but what else is new? The best brakes and most consistent running motor we have used yet. I allowed them in the Falcon cars and soon everybody switched. I have sold aprox. 40 so far.

These motors geared this way can easily be driven by anyone with even a basic controller. Thanks, Jerry!

Tim Tompkins

[MSwiss]

Our own Mr. Swiss published a useful photo study of the visual differences between the Hawk and Falcon motors in July 2010 if I remember correctly.

Perhaps he can be persuaded to replicate the information here or on the JK products website.

IIRC the at-a-glance visual differences were thickness/number of arm laminations, can weight, and can bearing enclosure

Here's what I found:





Virtually identical width, height, and length dimensions along with the same mounting hole pattern as the Falcon 7.

Differences include an apparently different can bushing material and obviously, the larger oval cooling/viewing hole. It measures .590" L x .198" W vs .433" L x .159" W for the Falcon 7. Along with the lighter weight, the bigger slot allows much easier monitoring of the brush length.

The H7 weighs .7-.8 grams lighter than the F7.
The arm is about .3 grams lighter and the can is approximately .4-.5 grams lighter.
The endbell weighs virtually the same in both motors.



While the endbell is similar in appearance and design, there is enough difference to lead me to believe this motor was manufactured in a different factory than the Falcon 7. Note the more enclosed housing for the endbell bushing.



Brush design is very similar but not identical.
H7 is on the the left. A well used, worn out F7 is on the right.



The differences are more apparent when looking at the arm. While both have .375" length stacks, the Hawk 7(below) has 26 laminations compared to 18 laminations on the Falcon 7.(above)
Jerry has told me he consulted Stu Koford for advice on what type of lam material to order.

A few other tidbits I remember is the Hawk 7 had about 6-8 less turns of wire which corresponded to it metering about 10-12 percent lower. Also, the magnets appeared to be the exact same type of material as the F7, some sort of "big bang for your buck", Chinese Neos.

[MG Brown]

Thank you, sir. I hope this answers any remaining questions about these two motors.

[aquavelvis]

Maybe because a Indy Flexi car works better with a 11 tooth pinon? Maybe for a bit more longevity???

Falcon 7's with 64 pitch gears...... 12 or 11 tooth pinions depending on the track.

Hawk 7's with 64 pitch gears.....11 or 10 tooth pinions depending on the track.

OK, I'm just thinking with arithmetic and not electro-mechanical physics, but why not a 12-tooth pinion for the Hawk as long as the spur gear is appropriately sized?

I've geared Hawks arithmetically similar to the 11/35 recommendation on the package, usually going with 12/37 or 38. I'm also thinking about GT1/LMP/GTP and not Indy, so maybe that makes a difference.

Thanks.

[Ron Hershman]

OK, I'm just thinking with arithmetic and not electro-mechanical physics, but why not a 12-tooth pinion for the Hawk as long as the spur gear is appropriately sized?

Because the armature is spinning at different speeds between the two different pinion sizes.

11/36 is 3.27:1.

12/39 is 3.25:1.

Pretty close both ways. The motor with the 11 will have a bit more torque and brakes versus the same motor with the 12. The 12 would give more top end and less brakes and torque... not to mention MORE heat over the 11t pinion.

I have run Falcon 7 motors in Retro Coupe cars... while most run 9/29 = 3.22:1... I go for 8/26 = 3.25:1... I have more brakes and the motor runs a bit cooler and the straightway speed usually feels the same with either pinion.