70 replies to this topic

[Pablo]

Finished September 2011:

 

 

Here's where it all started:

I bought this on Ebay. Looked like it had potential.
It needs a LOT of TLC. This could take months.
But, it's MINE now

How many things wrong can you spot in these pics ?
I will fix all of them

[Pablo]

The chassis is tweaked
Everything is out of tune

[Bill from NH]

I like this chassis! It's a real clean item & nicely built. I believe that chassis is scratchbuilt rather than being a factory built unit. The motor bracket is an International piece that fits both a 16D or one of the Hemi motors. Any idea what wind the Mura arm is? How long ago did you obtain this? I don't recall seeing it on ebay. Nice find!

[Pablo]

Aha, I see I have attracted the attention of my first and best slot car mentor, William Fernald

"Any idea what wind the Mura arm is?" Not yet. Time will tell.
"How long ago did you obtain this?" About a month ago.
"I don't recall seeing it on ebay" The early bird catches the worm
"Nice find!" Thanks Bill

[John Miller]

My guess is a group 12.

I want a dozen of those motor brackets.

[Pablo]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't G 12 an "unbalanced" arm class ? This arm has balance holes, John M. I am not the vintage expert, I'm just the mechanic.

[Old pink can guy]

Pablo nice find. Looks to me like it was raced on an oval due to the right rear tire ware, Also the guide is not square as in stright up and down and cocked to the left in the picture, not much but a little TLC and you have a runner. Am I right? Sometimes pictures are deceiving. Good luck I know you will put some love into it and it will really run fast. Ken.

[Hworth08]

Can't tell about the motor but it's probably a 27 or so wind, and likely one of the Magnum series. But there "should" be a can-in-a-can shim for that period. The endbell is one of the good ones with pent roof brush holders. Only one better, a white one, before the brush hoods changed to today's design in 1969.

Nice home-made frame built in 1967 that looks a little like the fairly famous Cobra frame. The first floppy body mounts hit the magazines in late '67 so the frame could have been built any time in 67.

I don't see much wrong except the droparm doesn't have enough bend out by the guide. And the guide would be a Cox or maybe a Dynamic, Jet guides weren't out yet. It's brass, they never handled right till they had smacked another car or the wall and been "teaked back" by hand!

I would try to preserve all I could. If that frame gets changed much it looses it's personality. It will lose it's slot car soul, once it's gone it can't be returned.

That car would have been competitive at many local tracks.

[tonyp]

Motor is much newer than the chassis. Mura cans came after angle winders.

[Gator Bob]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't G 12 an "unbalanced" arm class ? This arm has balance holes, John M. I am not the vintage expert, I'm just the mechanic.

Pablo, Yes G-12 started as an unbalanced with both 16 AND 26D flavors spec'd in. Probably a later arm in that older can. What color wire is it?
It may be a production International chassis. Check over on the Independent Scratch builder site, there are some images posted.
Those big bushing Mura's are scarce, check to see if the endbell has "MURA" molded in.
Nice piece and a nice find.

[Guy Spaulding]

The balancing hole on the arm reminds me of an NCC20. What's really nice is how everything is devoid of rust and corrosion

[slotcarone]

Motor is much newer than the chassis. Mura cans came after angle winders.

My thought exactly!! It is unusual in that the builder used piano wire rails on the inside in one piece to make the bracket brace. I don't recall this being done back in the day. A real innovator!!!

[don.siegel]

Looks like one that was either updated a decade or two after the fact, or maybe even built more recently in the old style (altho those solder joints look pretty old - and nicely done). As far as I can tell, scratchbuilt, not an International or other factory job...

In any case, a nice find Pablo - I had noticed that one too, so glad that you got it.

I remember using piano wire fairly early in the game, but not really sure when it became a standard rail on these inline chassis - I know that we were already using 1/32 piano wire inside 1/16 brass tube to strengthen it.

Don

[Hworth08]

Motor is much newer than the chassis. Mura cans came after angle winders.

Yep, that's right. No lead wire clips till about 1972 either. And I'm pretty sure Riggen made only 5-40 threaded wheels in '67.

If the motor is stock it could be what I think was called a D Production and about a $7 motor. I believe the top of the line motors had a 444 part number that was the Magnum 1000 or the Cukras pink colored motor that were 15 to 25 dollar motors. I'm also thinking those were Mura's last motors before the can was "turned around" to no longer be endbell drive.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

the "jet flag" was a semi-clone of the Dynamic 659 originally which came out in 65. The "Jet Flag" copy by name, was originally a "SIMCO" item.

They were white not orange, of course.

Locally, people commonly drilled out the threaded wheels to tap them for set screws, but the screws were plain not allan heed that I saw.

Universal brackets similar to this by Dubro are still available from REH, he has bins of them cheap.

Fate

[endbelldrive]

Front and rears should be set at 3" and take out those spacers on the front axle. The fronts should have a 1/8" side to side Cukras slop.

[Pablo]

"Mura cans came after angle winders" Good call, I'll find an older motor for it, and use the Mura on something more modern in a future build.

"What color wire is it?" Reddish. Looks about 27-ish wire; some bubbles in the epoxy.

"check to see if the endbell has "MURA" molded in" It's a Mura endbell.

"In any case, a nice find Pablo - I had noticed that one too, so glad that you got it." You may end up owning it after all, but it's going to cost more $

"No lead wire clips till about 1972 either" I can snake the wires down the holes, eh ?

"And I'm pretty sure Riggen made only 5-40 threaded wheels in '67". Good call, threaded it is, both front and rear. I have lots of threaded Mila Miglias.

"Front and rears should be set at 3" " I agree Bob, but the chassis width is 3 1/8 so I may have to fudge on this and make em 3 1/8.

"take out those spacers on the front axle" Of course. They weigh about a ton each.

"The fronts should have a 1/8" side to side Cukras slop." Got it.

What would be a good body for it ? WB is 4.0, GL is .50

The entire car will be dismantled, and the chassis goes into the jig to straighten and relax everything. Not to mention lots of solder sucking

One thing you guys missed: motor is spinning wrong direction ! It has a good amount of timing; it sounds a LOT healthier when run the correct direction !!
Maybe the Mura motor made the old chassis faster than the guy wanted to go ??!! Maybe the Mura was the reason the chassis is so tweaked ? I'll put something tamer in it and enjoy it for what it is. Maybe a Russkit 22 or 23 ? Or I'll see if I have a Mabuchi in my box of horrors......

THANK YOU all for great input, I really enjoy all the knowledge that keeps me straight and having fun !!

[Hworth08]

We missed the motor spinning the wrong direction? I don't think so! In 67 most of the tracks were wired postive LEFT. You have to cross the black and white wires on the old Cox MCR controllers if you hook them on today's tracks.

Also there was no "right" direction for the timing then. You built either a left or right drive sidewinder depending on who built the motor. One of the drawbacks of the anglewinder era!

A suitable body? Lotus 40 by all means if there's a 4 inch one.

An early '67 motor could have well been a Russkit 23 wound 60 of 29 with Hemi magnets and stack with a stock endbell. Late 67 could be the oval hole Mabuchi can with Arco mags that REQUIRED a 27 or hotter wind. The Arcos were extremely harsh driving mags. A hot arm smoothed the motor, and melted stock endbells. An early Champion 517 would work, they lasted about an hour when new, expect less today. A Mura Magnum 88 (the mags were called X88), a nice Lenz, Thrope, Dyna-Rewind, Kean maybe, there was no shortage of motors then!

[Pablo]

Ahhhhhh I stand corrected on the direction issue, Thanks again, Don H !!!

Lotus 40, eh ? I have to check out the ED website and go shopping.
I need white Champion leadwires, maybe a Russkit motor, some axle nuts.......
May have to shop at PM as well......for the nuts, and axles.

[Pablo]

Disassembly revealed some more problems:

Both axles were bent really bad. No matter because I'm going to order new PM threaded axles front and rear. I found some neat threaded front and rear wheels.

Rear axle assembly was totally bound up. Something I've never seen before: 5/32 tubing for axle holders PLUS bushings !!! Badly misaligned and bound tight

Drop arm is bent and bound up tight. Also, too much drop.

Front ride height is all messed up, but you knew that from looking at the pics.

[Hworth08]

Pablo, you been drinkin'? How can the the drop arm be bound up and have too much drop?

Just joking! I'm working along on a couple of Cobra inlines that are similiar. Folks would beat and ding the cars then never fix anything. And the cars got slower each race.

[Pablo]

How can the the drop arm be bound up and have too much drop?

How can a rear axle be bound up and still turn ? I said "bound up" , not "bound up tight" There is a big difference, ya know

[Hworth08]

Pablo, I have full faith and confiden... well, full faith, you'll get this chassis revivied and (back) on track!

I thought about the bushing/tubing combo. Could have been the motor bracket is made for quarter inch bearings. The builder didn't have any 9/32nds tubing so he just soldered on some 5/32nds to hold the frame rails.

The builder probably built the drop arm last as was normal. In the haste to see the frame run he did take some shortcuts. By 1967 the drop arm should have weighed a lot. Or he could have been running out of rod?

Only the builder knows for sure...and he's probably forgot!

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

Actually, Russkitt set screws were around and used. Their first ones were in their "scratchbuilder" kits in '64.

Timing on the motors, if you look in old ads you will see motors listed as "CW" and "CCW" for "clockwise" and "counter clock wise". There was a lot of discussion in the inline era about using the torque to pick which turns to "help" on.

Early Anglewinders came in both sides, and the dynamic brackets we often used came with a pre-built motor box for both directions. I remember the "OMG" moment when a customer handed me another guy's chassis using the bracket and a motor timed "wrong" meaning a can mount rather than endbell and I went "OMG".

Fate

[Pablo]

Body I picked is a Lotus 40 by Outisight.

I "found" a GREAT powerplant for this car.
She REALLY SINGS trust me on this one

HAVLICEK Power RULES !