50 replies to this topic

[tjsguns]

Does anyone know if anybody on Team Russkit or any other pro ever used the Russkit McLaren MkII body on the pro circuit back in the "day"?

If so... are there any pictures of such a car?

[don.siegel]

TJ,

The first R&C road race has photos of three Russkit team McLarens, but it's the McLaren Elva body, with diaplanes and spoilers. Out of the top twelve guys in the race, there were six McLaren Elvas and three Mk-Is. The fourth R&C race, for sports cars again, only has one McLaren listed, but it doesn't say which one, and was driven by Dave Ross, so from a different team.

For the first Car Model race (reported in June '67), Mike Morrissey was running a McLaren, but model unidentified... There were two Lola T70s and everybody else used a Lotus 40.

Don

[tjsguns]

Thanks, Don!

[TSR]

At Team Russkit, the McLaren-Elva body was quickly replaced not by the MK2 but by the Chaparral 2, then the Lola T70, then as quickly by the Lotus 40. At the end of 1967, the team was disbanded so anything after that is irrelevant...

[flarimer]

FWIW - I did build and race several cars using the MkII body. None however at any of the R&C events. Like PdL says, we used the Chaparral or the Lotus 40 - especially after the factory produced them in paper-thin versions.

I did find the McLaren MkII - with it's larger rear section would accomodate the larger cans and did play around with a experimental big-can (26?) that Jim R and Jack D provided. Had to add more rails to the chassis as the thing had a LOT more torque and the standard two-rail chassis would chatter and lurch badly. Finally ended up using a combination of 1/16" inner rails and 1/8" outer rails to tame the beast. Once I got the flexing to stop it was actually pretty quick.

Also found the MkII body responded favorably to installing an elevated, large flat wing (similar in style to the Chaparral "flipper" type of wing) over the rear wheels instead of the more traditional spoiler attached to the rear of the body. This also provided a place to put larger "Team Russkit" decals...

[dc-65x]

Hi Fred,

Building a “What If” Team Russkit car around the 26D has been on my to-do list. Russkit even had a 26D shown in their 1967 catalog though I don’t know if they ever really sold them.

Can you give me an idea of how many 1/16” inner rails you might have used?

Do you think the 1/8” outer rails would have been solid rod and bent up at 90 degrees to attach to the front and rear axle tube?

Was the rear wing like a Chaparral 2E and was it attached with two struts to the body or to the chassis?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, Fred.

Rick

[flarimer]

Rick -

The 26D can - for sure was some sort of a pre-prod example - I recall it was shiny silver - not Russkit gold - and the arm had green wire - no idea what it was but it had plenty of grunt.

The chassis I used was pretty standard for the time - working from distant memory so .. the regular Russkit rear mount with three 1/16" rod rails, I recall they were soldered together as they ran forward to the front axle tube. It seems to me that they were angled inboard slightly as they went forward. The 1/8" solid rods were outboard of the 1/16" rails (again, solid rod, not tubing) - spaced outboard by at least the width of the 1/8" rod and ran straight forward (not angled) to the front axle tube. I believe they were bent up at 90 degrees in front and at the rear about 60 degrees and - similar to the Lotus F-1 car - slightly canted so that where they soldered to the rear axle tubes they were almost all the way to the outboard ends of the tubes.

EDIT - where the 1/16" rods kicked upwards to the front axle tube, the center of the three was behind the axle tube and the inboard/outboard rods went forward of the axle tube. [end edit]

Drop arm was pretty much like the one you did for the Lotus F1 car.

Yes, the rear wing was mounted on uprights and they were surface glued to the MkII's engine cover (rear bodywork). The way I did this was to cut the clear sheet "wing" so that it was just a bit narrower than the body and about 1" wide. The uprights were maybe 1/2" tall and were the same width as the wing (1"), cut so that they had a bit of an angle to them and the wing surface would be at about a 30 degree angle. I cut slots into the body where the flared inboard and positioned the uprights so that they were partially in these slots and partially resting on the top surface of the body (that way I could glue them pretty solidly) and then glued the wing to the uprights - If I recall right the whole thing was far enough aft to clear the engine's intake stacks. (wish I had a picture to share with you as that'd probably make better sense)

Hope this helps with your concept. Feel free to ask more questions - never know when the recall will click in and more accurate recollections will kick in.

fL

[dc-65x]

Feel free to ask more questions - never know when the recall will click in and more accurate recollections will kick in.

Hi Fred,

Thanks for sharing your memories of your car and offer of help .

Here's one of your Team Russkit cars in the bottom picture:



It looks to be in the style of building you described for your 26D racer... what do you think?

About the motor, do you think it was an epoxied and balanced armature done by one of your teammates or a factory prototype done by Mabuchi for Russkit?

Fred, the rear wing you did will absolutely MAKE this tribute to your Team Russkit racer.

[Hworth08]

About the motor, do you think it was an epoxied and balanced armature done by one of your team mates or a factory prototype done by Mabuchi for Russkit?

Pretty sure it was the OWH days, when Mike Morrisey made a few posts, that Mike wrote of one team member being very good rewinding and did all the team motors. Can't remember which member was the motor man though.

[TSR]

About the motor, do you think it was an epoxied and balanced armature done by one of your team mates or a factory prototype done by Mabuchi for Russkit?

Mabuchi never did anything like that. The "factory samples" were always a production motor already... in production. From what Jim Russell told me, Mabuchi would supply a motor sample, and simply asked, "how many do you want".

I cannot speak for Fred, but I can say that most of the Team Russkit members did, at one time or the other, wound their own. But other motors were also used: we have genuine Team Russkit cars at the LASCM with... Bob Lenz motors stuck with a Russkit 23 sticker.

I also know that in the early days, while Mike Morrissey built the "Team" chassis (this before Fred made it in the team), Len Vucci wound and epoxied the motors, and I have to tell you, they were rather crude, but did the job. Then more sophisticated technology came in, with guys like Doug Henline as a good example.

Fred can tell us if he did his own motors or if he used someone else rewinds from another Team member.

[flarimer]

Rick, PdL -

Indeed, Len was the "rewind" guy early on. Life and it's twists had Len doing other things and we were for a while scrambing to find/get motors until Doug joined us. I know there was a point in time there where I did buy some OTC motors to race with...

I can't vouch for Rick or Ron but I did try rewinding for a while - without much success as I didn't understand things like advancing or retarding the com and gapping the magnets...maybe if I'd tried a bit harder to sort these things out...

The 26D that I was using - no idea from where it came. Some of the brain cells aligned and I remember Mike M offered it to me to try out. Wonder of wonders - I went out to the garage and rummaged thru my old box and guess what I found...a 26D, silver can, green wire on the arm, epoxied and balanced. The can also has a Russkit sticker on it...so, it seems that I still have the motor. Hopefully Mike won't read this, ring me and reclaim it...

Rick - the chassis - yes, post R&C race 5 I borrowed the car from Mike so I could build a copy for myself. I'm not 100% sure if I put the 26D can in it from the beginning or if I retro-fitted it later on - as you can imagine we would build a car, try it, modify it, re-build it etc - at least for me, the cars were changing on a regular basis just like in real-life-racing.

And, it gets *even* better - this 26D is in a bare chassis - 3 brass rails and a 4th rod of what looks to be stainless steel that has been "sistered" outboard of the 3 rails. From the looks of it, I'd say the inboard 3 rails might be original but the chassis has been hacked on (I handed everything off to my brother when I left in August of 1967 for my tour with the USAF) and it is hard to say how much is from the original car. It even has a flat brass drop arm which I know for sure I wouldn't have used back then... Another thing I notice in looking at this survivor - the rails are not soldered together except where the hinge for the drop arm is and at the front where there is a support brace. So, perhaps I am incorrect in my memory of soldering the rails together.

Looking at the photo of the car I used at the R&C race, it appears at least some of the rails are tubing yet I recall that I used brass rod for the outboard rail - for strength and the extra weight.

PdL - I should work with you to get what remains in my old race box turned over to you - and we should probably sit together to inventory what is in there so there will be an "official" listing of the contents for the records.

And, there is a second, bare chassis in there that is one of the first brass tube cars I built for a "22" motor using the early-style flat brass engine mounts. Boy that brings back some memories - I know it was a F-1 style car and that it used a Lancer Lotus 25 body (as I was a Jim Clark fan). It is pretty rough but might well be restorable.

Rick - when ever you get around to building a MkII car let me know and we can get together either on the phone or via email to discuss the elevated wing. PM me and I'll send you my contact info.

All the best,
fL

[dc-65x]

Rick - when ever you get around to building a MkII car let me know and we can get together either on the phone or via email to discuss the elevated wing. PM me and I'll send you my contact info.

PM Sent, thanks Fred

[TSR]

Hopefully Mike won't read this, ring me and reclaim it...

No, but the LASCM will track you down and you will have to surrender it to posterity...

PdL - I should work with you to get what remains in my old race box turned over to you - and we should probably sit together to inventory what is in there so there will be an "official" listing of the contents for the records.

Fred,
of course we can do this. Your interview for the book is one of the best, and the readers will simply LOVE your story... all we need is a good picture of you at age 17...
Rick of course is always welcome to visit the LASCM at anytime, and take any and all pictures he needs. He is one of the best out there to recreate these beautiful old cars with Steve Okeefe who is also incredibly talented along with few others. Passion first!

[flarimer]

No, but the LASCM will track you down and you will have to surrender it to posterity...

Fred,
of course we can do this. Your interview for the book is one of the best, and the readers will simply LOVE your story... all we need is a good picture of you at age 17...
Rick of course is always welcome to visit the LASCM at anytime, and take any and all pictures he needs. He is one of the best out there to recreate these beautiful old cars with Steve Okeefe who is also incredibly talented along with few others. Passion first!

Hey PdL - yeah, but they have to find me first....

Photo of me at 17-ish....heck, I don't even have one of those....tho there are pics of me at the R%C event at Checkered Flag (2nd place concours for the 906 Carrera that I ran) up in the valley and the photo from the R&C race at J&J's - the lead-in photo to the article - is me qualifying my Lotus F-1 (that Rick re-created) for the race so perhaps that is as good as it's gonna get.

Say,have we "thread-jacked" this or what???...maybe this should be moved to another place?

As always, always happy to chime in and give my "perception" of what went on back in the day especially if everyone keeps in mind that it simply is my best memory and should be taken with a grain-of-salt as it's been 40+ years gone...

[dc-65x]

Say, have we "thread-jacked" this or what???...maybe this should be moved to another place?

Yes we should and I'd like to thank Tom for the use of his thread and for creating a very interesting topic in the first place. Thanks Tom

I've found 2 green wire rewound 26D arms. I'll post pics of them in a new thread on Fred's Team Russkit 26D along with a link to the thread soon.

[tjsguns]

No problemo Rick,
Wait'll u see whats comin'!!

[TSR]

I looked in everything I have as far as documentation and could not find a single pic of a Team Russkit MK2...
Plenty of Lotus 40's, Chaparral (2 and 2D), McLaren-Elva... even Lola T70.
No MK2...
The closest I guess would be the so-called Team Russkit STYLE Auto World kits for reference, but they are nothing like the real thing, albeit apparently quite rare.

Russkit indeed had an FT26 motor in its 1967 catalog but it was never issued to the public.

[Jairus]

Yeah Rick, drop that boat anchor for a proper #23 and lets RACE!

[don.siegel]

No, I like the idea of a 26D powered Russkit car...

Philippe, how about that McLaren listed for Mike Morrissey in the first Car Model race? Seems that would have had to be a MkII, non? Any memories of that Fred? Of course the listing may have been wrong, as it often was it seems...

Don

[Jairus]

I think that was an Elva Don. Mike used that body a lot early in '66 before moving to the Lotus.

[tonyp]

Elva.

[dc-65x]

Yes we should and I'd like to thank Tom for the use of his thread and for creating a very interesting topic in the first place. Thanks Tom

I've found 2 green wire rewound 26D arms. I'll post pics of them in a new thread on Fred's Team Russkit 26D along with a link to the thread soon.

I've started a new thread on a new project:

1966 Team Russkit 26D Racer

[Jairus]

Well, to continue what Tom started.



Since nobody during the latter months of 1967 utilized a McLaren MkII body at the races, this build will become a fantasy what-if build. Could it have competed in the 4th "Car Modeler" races held in SoCal is up to debate and depending on when the body was first released.
The first thing I noticed about the body compared to the Lotus and Lola is that it is too boxy with much too blunt a nose.
At any rate parts were collected and the build got underway using Mike Morrissey's write up in "Auto World" about how to build a Team Russkit chassis posted below.









Time to glue some rubber and prep a body for paint.
Russkit #23 motor has been sent to Sir Havlicek for his magic.
As they say... the world continues to revolve...

[Jairus]

Well, the Havlicek rewind seems to like it's new home!
John, you did a beautiful job on this one!



I mocked up the body and interior to see about making clearance for that motor. The Russkit McLaren body was probably formed not for the scratchbuilder but for the Carrera chassis (sidewinder) as the interior is totally in the way with an in-line motor.
My original thought was to use a flat styrene interior and the driver shown in the previous post.... but, if Sandy Gross did it way back when, I can too!
So, using the soldering iron and an old Russkit motor can as a mandrel I 're-formed' the interior to fit.






Body is prep'ed for paint so next step is finding that perfect bottle of red paint.... tomorrow!
Time for turkey!
(First year where I didn't scalp my knuckles peeling potatos!)
Hug your family, be good to one another and Happy Thanksgiving Slotbloggers!

[Mark H]

love it!

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!