241 replies to this topic

[Larry Mattingly]

I have seen a few "narrow" F1 cars that were just as fast and competitive with the "fat" F1 cars at IRRA™ races.

I believe the 'correct' D3 description of the IRRA™ F1 cars is... 'pregnant'.

LM

[tonyp]

... vs the D3 lawn darts.

[MantaRay]

With the "wide" A-arm front end on the D3 cars I'll bet they handle very much the same as IRRA™ cars. JMO.

[Noose]

And... many of the D3 bodies used, which are made by TrueScale, fit the IRRA™ frames with no problem and don't look pregnant. Many have been and are still used by guys that have won races out here.

Here is one of Mike Katz's car from Port Jeff this past summer. It's a TrueScale Ferrari he ran many, many times.



Remember too IRRA™ requires wider fronts which IMO look more realistic than the skinny ones.

[MantaRay]

I agree with Noose on the wider fronts...

[Bryan Warmack]

Mike and I keep in touch and when he called and said he had some ideas about some cars and could he come by and get some scrap metal to throw something together I thought FANTASTIC!!! as everyone would love to have Mike back even if it was only occasionally.

Mike knew all about the split in D3 and we discussed much of what went on to bring it about. Mike has nothing to do with the D3 decisions now but strongly feels, as I do, that to allow the basic IRRA™ style rules would be a good thing for a lot of reasons and certainly a step in the right direction. John Cukras's newly-formed SCRRA does this now and if a car meets either D3 or IRRA™ rules it is legal. Other than the different motors and the F1 widths the rules for the cars are virtually identical. The only other difference is that D3 lets you get away with murder and the IRRA™ murders you!!

Certainly no one is considering asking the IRRA™ to change anything but Mike and I both feel that in light of what has happened it is perhaps time to open things up just a bit out here. I just don't know what it could hurt. I'm sure that no matter what happens NOTHING will change to make any present D3 legal cars obsolete.

I'm sure a few details would need to be worked out as the super fast Gerding King track allows cars lighter to work well and maybe we just ignore the 100 gram minimum weight. Obviously our motors would remain the same but basically anyone showing up with a legal IRRA™ car would be welcome with a simple motor change.

D3 is presently voting on many things and I now have a vote and I am strongly in favor of the inclusion of rules that would make any IRRA™ car legal at any D3 event. Again I just don't see what it could possible hurt.

[The Bugman]

With the "wide" A-arm front end on the D3 cars I'll bet they handle very much the same as IRRA™ cars. JMO.

They do!!

[Noose]

The only other difference is that D3 lets you get away with murder and the IRRA™ murders you!!

Now that's funny.

[Mike Steube]

Hindsight being 20/20 I believe that allowing the A-arm front end was a big mistake. The A-arm concept has been abused and it's ugly.

The chassis width at 1-5/8" gives you the room to run the 1/4" wide .063" pans without making the main rail section super skinny. Building the wider car is easier than building a narrow car with the A-arm front end.

All that being said, some of the fastest F1s seem to be without the A-arms, AKA Duran's cars. The wider fronts look great. SCRRA allows the wider car. It's just a matter of time before the A-arms lose their appeal being harder to build.

On BPR's King the narrow cars are very fast. On the road courses I think I would choose the wider version. SCRRA allows this. My last F1s seemed slow out of the corner with the A-arm front, smooth, but not quick. I'm not sure all of that weight should be on the front axle.

The wider car is more in line with my present waist line. I like that!

[MSwiss]

Other Mike S, I agree with all the above.

IMO, I think it's time for D3 to go to 1-5/8" wide cars and ideally IRRA™ rules. It would go a long way in assuring the longevity of Retro racing.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, soldered together inline cars did not (re)start in SoCal. Mark Manion and NorCal had them. Chicagoland raced them and obviously the Brazilians before us, since they were supplying us with built chassis and nice clear and painted bodies.

But none of us are taking credit for anything or insisting on sticking to our "original vision".

That said, of course Paul S. and BP on the strength of its cast of '60s All-Stars really brought it into popularity.

But all this Paul S "original vision" stuff is getting old.

Give Paul S. a nice engraved plaque or a gold-plated soldering iron and move on.

[Mike Steube]

Just got off the phone with Paul Sterrett. It was good to have a chat about the proposals this thread originally asked.

The bottom line goes like this:
Paul is in favor of adding the proposals and is looking forward to working with the D3 board to add these items to D3 rules.
Bryan Warmack will be in touch with the board to put these changes to a vote.
Now both D3 and SCRRA rules programs may soon be near identical. Good for BPR.

I hope the BPR retro racers will put BPR before personal hurts and support both programs.

[Tex]

I picked up on Retro racing not too long after the SoCal stuff began appearing on Slotblog; so, I freely admit that what I've seen and opinions I've formed are influenced in part by that.

But more than merely Retro racing itself, the BIGGEST thing I got out of the SoCal thing was a return to SCRATCHBUILDING. Assembling kits with solder isn't the same thing; nor is being supplied with built chassis. I'll chip in for that plaque or gold-plated soldering iron.

Of course, it's a given that Paul didn't do something earthshaking like invent ball-bearings or something... or put BBs in motors.

Hey, we gotta laugh at ourselves, don't we? We can't take this stuff too seriously... it's just toy cars.

[Mike Steube]

Just got off the phone with Bryan Warmack. He wants everybody that is attending the Checkpoint Cup race to be assured that there will be no changes to the program. No changes, none of the new proposals. He would like any changes to be after the Cup race to keep things fair and unconfused.

NO CHANGES ARE GOING TO BE MADE TO THE UPCOMING CHECKPOINT CUP RACES!!!

[Mopar Rob]

Good to know. I'm having some custom F1 pieces made for a Cali racer and figured I was going to eat the cost. Now maybe they'll get one or two races out of it before it's obsolete?

[The Bugman]

Well for one, they're not going to be OBSOLETE... EVER!

They will be as they call it "grandfathered in", meaning if you had it before the rules changed it'll still be legal.

So you didn't "waste" your money.

"He'll" be able to use it for many races...

[Bryan Warmack]

As I explained to Mike, I am just ONE vote in SEVEN on the new D3 board in charge of any changes. Any and all of this needs to be addressed ASAP and nothing has been formally proposed but I can virtually assure everyone that any possible changes to D3 will occur AFTER the Checkpoint Cup.

AND... even if the board decides to use the VERY similar IRRA™ rules as well as the existing D3 rules, please understand that the changes are VERY SLIGHT and really only involve a wider F1 car and the inclusion of a few more bodies.

I am also quite sure that ANY D3 legal car will always be legal in any D3 race.

The D3 board currently has several other issues under discussion and all hope to be resolved very soon.

[Mark Wampler]

Question: who is on the current D3 board?

[The Bugman]

Sterrett, PdL, Keith Tanaka, Ken Dylke, Marc Franco, Bryan Warmack, and Barney Poynor.

[Mark Wampler]

I'd nominate you, Bugster, if it ever comes to an election.

[The Bugman]

Mark,

I don't have enough "clout" to be included in that group...

[TSR]

Oscar,

Clout or not, if you have suggestions that you believe would make D3 racing better for all, why not expressing them by sending a PM to any of the Board members?

[Gus Kelley]

Hey Guys!

It sounds like a few small evolutions are happening and that's great. Probably the best thing is finally a few voices are being acknowledged but one must remember that too many cooks can spoil the deal. I very much agree with the stated changes and look forward to them. I still like to adhere to the different motors between Can-Am and F1 and the idea of running a narrow F1 when on the King.

Gus in Sacto

[Mark Wampler]

Or express your concerns out in the open, Oscar

[Bob Chaney]

Mr. Steube .. your proposals are spot on, and your call for unity not only in SoCal but across the nation has been too long in coming. Thank you for putting yourself forward as a spokesman for the "resaon" many of us have advocated in our minds for far too long. I am sure that much will be accomplished based on the source of the suggestion, and it is much appreciated.

Thanks again Mike.

[The Bugman]

Clout or not, if you have suggestions that you believe would make D3 racing better for all, why not expressing them by sending a PM to any of the Board members?

Mr P., we did have a nice chat this past weekend at our monthly SCRRA race, at lunch at I.B. Both Bryan & Marc were very good at listening to our/my ideas and comments,they will be discussed at one of THE D3 Meetings soon.

"At least they listened to us".