112 replies to this topic

[Pablo]

Previous hershman thread got locked before I had a chance to comment

My first R4 I asked to see Hershman's car. I thought it would be all cloak and dagger secrecy surrounding the car, and the car would have all sorts of trickness.

Both A and B were wrong. There was no secrecy, he instantly handed me the car as if it was a bag of sand. Upon inspection, I could not find anything different than normal.

So, I learned my lesson, Hershman is a world class racer and he has a great pit crew. He talked with me and helped me with lots of patience every time.

The negativity belongs in Freeblog. Keep it there, I don't want to see it here.

Hershman is a nice guy, a world class racer, and he earns what he gets. End of story.

[The Number of]

Whats the over under on how many posts before this gets locked?

[Pablo]

Bill Fulmer is tha man also He picked me up at the airport, along with Mopar Rob. Thanks for all the great pics, Bill.

Nobody will lock my thread, unless it gets infected with negativity

[Pablo]

PS Bill, take the safety off, then your over/under will shoot fine

[Victor Poulin]

FWW,

Ron has never been anything but kind to me personally over the years, and helped me with my motor building skills as well as helped me with parts ect.

[Bill from NH]

I would have nothing but good words to say about the man too!

[911GT3]

Rande is wearing off on Ron.

[Hworth08]

Not promising but being good or even the best slot racer is like holding a Royal Flush and no one else is betting. It just don't pay nothin'.

Cheater wrote five or so years ago that slot racing was for the ego. I didn't much like the statement but it does seem true.

[Horsepower]

I have had dealings with Ron in the past and he is a first class guy. Forget the politics.

[Matt Bruce]

I really do believe this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. Nobody is doubting Rons ability, or the fact he is a nice guy or is a hero to millions of fans who would sacrifice themselves to save him. Well, maybe that's a little bit blown out of proportion, Lol. When you win alot it comes with the territory. Ron is the whole package and to beat him it is very satisfying, ain't that right Cap? Ron shouldn't have jumped all over Howie like that either, he only said they weren't bag motors and that he is the Columbus Master. Lay off both of them and work on your chit people.

[TSR]

Matt, well said.

[Howie Ursaner]

Hershman being a nice guy has nothing to do with the fact he gets to seal his own motors and race them.That is wrong and everyone should be sick of it. He should have to race like everyone else. People wake up.

[Victor Poulin]

Hey, I was just following up on Pablo's statement that's all. Not realizing this was a bashing thread again, sorry.

[flem1959]

So Howie Ursaner is accusing Ron of cheating.
Sore loser, move on or make up more rules for retro.
Maybe you guys should run open motors instead.

[Howie Ursaner]

So Howie Ursaner is accusing Ron of cheating.

You are saying this not me. I am saying that he can do anything he wants with no police. What would you do? This is stupid. He is no saint.Give me a break. Don't be naive.

[Zippity]

Here we go again - straight to the padlock queue

[flem1959]

I don`t even race retro because of crap like this, but I don`t think those guys win by cheating.
They win by experience, talent, and dedication.
It`s not like they live across the street from Tom Thumb.
They drive all the way from Central Indiana to get there and run on a regular basis.
They are good and they`ve been good racers for decades.

[Dave Reed]

Just a SOUR GRAPES Non ISSUE!.. Get over it!..Build more and talk less..

[Bill from NH]

That's why the first thread got locked before Pablo got a chance to post to it.

[Howie Ursaner]

So Howie Ursaner is accusing Ron of cheating.
Sore loser, move on or make up more rules for retro.
Maybe you guys should run open motors instead.

Ron can beat me anytime. I don't care.Just do it with motors that everyone else can get. I think all racers should be concerned with this. It is not just me. There are many out there and we talk about it all of the time.

[Paul Martin]

As an absolute point of fact, Ron is the only racer in retro that gets to work on his own motor, so what Howie is saying makes sense. There are only two solutions to that. One is for Ron to always run "bag" motors and the other is he runs rebuilds from Proslot. Obviously buying new motors for every race could get expensive and none of the rest of we retro racers would want to do that so that is very unfair. I personally was in the camp that thought Ron should run Proslot rebuilds until this R4. This may or may not be letting the cat out of the bag but the secret to how well these motors run is in the brushes. I may be in the minority here but I have been getting my rebuilds back and just putting them in cars hoping they run well. I have not had a good motor in so long I was ready to quit. Out of desperation, I started changing brushes and trying different breakin techniques. All of a sudden, I have a box full of good motors and I'm talking about motors that appeared to have a bad armature they were so slow and now they are good. The point of all of this is the base motor is very even across the board I believe. The better motors are just right in the brush to com connection over the poor motors.

When Ron runs a bag motor, I would find it hard to believe the motor came out of the bag, cut the shaft, install the pinion and went straight into the car. While we all are getting rebuilt motors from one of our two sources, Ron is using Hershman "tuned" motors. Perhaps Ron will enlighten us to exactly what his tuning or breakin procedure is to get the bullet bag motors he seems to get. There are many other quick motors out there and I'm pretty convinced others have figured out how to get the brush type and breakin that works for them. I have never seen this come up before so maybe the "fast" guys will help the rest of us out here.

Long story short, I think Ron is an honorable person and would not cheat, so I don't think it is necessary for him to run other motors than what he is running now. Let's face it, Ron Hershman is the standard by which everyone else gauges their performance. There are now several competitors that are in his talent league and the quality racing at the last couple of R4's has shown this.

Just my take,
Paul

[Duffy]

I'm so far from having a dog in this pit that I'm in the aviary, but I'm seeing the primary focus on the wrong thing here.

Prof. Fate frequently says that rules are written out of fear: Afraid of someone having An Edge, write a rule. Fear the rule for taking away YOUR Edge. Find a way to beat the rule. And so on.

It's not about what WE can do to win, it's about how someone else can be kept from doing it better than US.

Look, there's no crying in Baseball, and even less saints in Racing. Deal. No rule is written that forces Ron to recuse himself in the use of motors he MAY have touched in his biz, so that immediately becomes this big Issue in our consciousness. Never mind that you could probably tear the vibrator out of an old cell phone and screw it into Ron's car and he'd still whup your @ss: if he deliberately doesn't recuse himself (and keeps his competition thinking about something other than racing, btw) we all get fluttery and hand-wringy.

--What would you call that? PS-envy?

It gets solved when Ron graciously drops the strategy, or the rule gets written, or when we stop buying into it and just go racing.

Duffy

[flem1959]

As far as I know, anybody can change brushes in a sealed motor class.
That`s not considered cheating is it?
If you think he`s running cheater arms or messing with airgaps then say it.
If Hershman knows which brushes run best, how`s that any different than knowing which tires run best?
That`s what I call being dialed in.

[Howie Ursaner]

I don`t even race retro because of crap like this, but I don`t think those guys win by cheating.
They win by experience, talent, and dedication.
It`s not like they live across the street from Tom Thumb.
They drive all the way from Central Indiana to get there and run on a regular basis.
They are good and they`ve been good racers for decades.
Mike Fleming

"I don`t even race retro"

[TSR]

So Howie Ursaner is accusing Ron of cheating.
Sore loser, move on or make up more rules for retro.

Mike,
I am posting this not as a racer but as the co-owner of this forum.
Howie is not accusing Ron of anything like you are implying. YOU are putting words in his mouth that he has not said and your posts here are not relevant at all. If you do not race in retro racing, please stay out of this discussion, thank you.
All Howie is saying is that there is a major conflict of interest, when a fellow rebuilding motors for others also rebuilds his own.
That's the debate and nothing else. You do not need to be cheating, simply to spend more time on your own, to get some advantage.
It is a relevant debate.
No one is denying that Ron is a very good racer, very dedicated etc. But anyone can see that there is a conflict of interest if he is also racing or having a team racing the motors he prepares for him or his team. This does not mean that anyone is actually cheating, it means that if one is spending so much time on a customer's motor, then spends much more time on his own, it is pretty obvious that there could be a serious advantage, perceived or real, and that's the ONLY subject that Howie is talking about here.
Thank you for trying to understand the issue instead of advancing words that have no relevancy to the subject at hand.
Keep the debate FAIR.