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Good Wood Revival Proxy


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#1 Jairus

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:17 AM

The Scratch builders guild presents:

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Premise: A scratch builders proxy race for “pretty” rather than “fast”.
Build a Sports or Grand Prix slot car using nothing more than what was available in the local hobby shop about January 1965. Hand-carved wood bodies were very popular up to 1964, as model car companies had not yet ventured far into the sports car field. If you wanted to build a racer of a 1955 Allard, you had to carve the body yourself and mount it on a scratch built chassis.
So that is what we are doing here. And while there ultimately will be a “race”, the emphasis is on scale looks and period authenticity. A points system will determine the eventual winner.

Proposed race date sometime in March and April.

Two races to be held in the U.S. and two in the U.K. (TBA and looking for picturesque looking tracks.) Update: First race to be held at Pelican Park Raceway! (confirmed)

Official Rules
1. Hand carved original wood bodies only. Any type of wood allowed, example: Balsa, Pine and Basswood/Lime.

2. Details can be either hand made from brass, aluminum, resin, plastic or sourced from static model or slot car kits. (Steering wheels, windshield, head and taillights, gas cap, wheel inserts.)

3. Subject matter is: open-top sports cars/GT cars and G.P. cars 1949 to 1960. Race markings are required with minimum of two numbers on the sides. Please register your numbers beforehand so we won’t have multiples, as that is how the cars will be called out in the race report. We will split the cars into classes depending on how many entries are received. But I do not see a problem racing GP cars with Sports cars.

4. Motors are limited to open frame Pittman/Kemtron style with two exceptions made for Bonner and K&B Challenger. A complete motor list is attached below. If your motor is not listed, then please ask the committee before entering. No can-motors allowed in this proxy! There are plenty of races for can motors and sealed Chinese motors.
Motor modifications are limited to what was modified during the period, ie: bearings, balancing, rewinding, magnet zapping, removing the rear axle support arms, etc. But no Neo magnets allowed! Let’s all keep that same old block of crap in there and have fun.
Not listed but also allowed are: Atlas AT206/208 and the Pittman DC-196B.

5. Chassis are pretty much open to anything that was built back in 1964 and lots of ideas were tried. Brass rod and brass tube space frames were pretty much the standard. However, full belly pans were starting to become popular as well, so either or a combination of both are good for this race. Factory produced chassis parts are also acceptable as long as they are period correct, example: Kemtron, K&B, Echo.
Drop arms legal but no body movement allowed! This is not a D3 retro race. It is a throw back to a hobby of an era gone by. So please stay in the spirit of the era and that eliminates any “Jail-door” or “floppy plate” chassis design.
That said… working steering, suspension; a differential, 4-wheel drive, two motors, sidewinder, and in-line are all deemed fair game.
One has only to open the pages of any Model Car Science from 1963-64 and you will see articles on building features such as these. So innovation and engineering encouraged, as long as it is in the spirit of the era.
Acceptable chassis examples:
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6. Wheels should be vintage threaded, taper-lock or set screw. Repops are allowed if they are close replicas. (Example: the Russkit reproductions currently available @ Professor Motor and Electric Dreams.) Vintage Dynamic, Buzco and Riggen cast wheels are also legal provided the casting matches the car. Inserts required on plain disc wheels and they should match the style and era of the car.

7. Tires to be vintage rubber or reproduction rubber scaled correctly to the car on which to be mounted. (Example Lotus 19 will have much smaller tires than will a Maserati 300S). Ortmann is an excellent source, and No foam or silicone tires allowed.

8. Driver figure required.

9. Guides are to be 1/8” post or 3/16” post “screw braid guides” only. No clip-in-braids! Please keep the lead wires to only one positive and one negative lead wire. Electric Dreams has vintage Champion “superflex” wire so keep it as vintage looking as possible.

10. Gears as vintage as possible. The most popularly used of the era were the bronze bevel gears made by MRRC, K&B, Atlas, Tradeship. No Pink Parma gears allowed or you will be mocked mercilessly I assure you!

11. Classes for 1/24th and 1/32nd scale racing. But all will compete together in concours d'elegance phase.

12. Concours d’elegance will be broken down into “best paint”, “most realistic/authentic”, and “best chassis”.

13. Entry fee: $75.00 u.s. (Estimate) to cover postage between the tracks and postage for the return trip home. T-shirts will be available for all entrants, design to be announced soon as I come up with one.

14. The committee reserves the right to add updates to this post as they happen. But, it won't hurt much.




Period motors example are shown in this MC&T magazine article.
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Jairus H Watson - Artist
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#2 Howmet TX

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:53 AM

I started building today!

John Dilworth


#3 Régis4446

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:43 PM

I'll start soon, I find my proxy car :)
Régis Baron

#4 Duffy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:06 PM

I tho't about it, but decided I wouldn't have time nor resources.

BUT I wanted to share my nasty little giggle, because within the letter of the rules it would work, and in 1964 I actually DID it...

At the time, I had some metal model of something I wanted - dunno what, it was green - so I fiddled around with plaster of Paris until I'd learned how to make a mold that came apart intact, and made a mold off the body. I recall something about modeling-clay dams with carpet tack keys...it's fuzzy now.
Then, I couldn't afford glass cloth, but I could hold this big block of balsa lengthwise against my Dad's belt sander 'til I choked & get a 5-gal. pail of long balsa fibers for my trouble. Mix'em to a slurry in thinned Ambroid, daub the mess into the plaster mold (slathered with Vaseline - this was Lesson #3 as I recall) and by the time I'd picked the last crust off my fingers I could pop the mold apart & get a body. Paint & mount.
Made a few for the guys, too, couple bucks each if I recall.

When this event came up, I was thinking about substituting a Howmet repop for the plaster (well, they had vacs in '64, right? And I supplied John the original for backpouring anyway!) but - still, no time.
But it was fun there, for a while.

duf
Michael J. Heinrich
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#5 dc-65x

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 04:45 PM

Hi Duffy,

If you can find the time I can find the parts for you. I'd love to see the Master of the Lost Causes having some vintage fun again... :)

Lost Causes Link

Rick Thigpen
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#6 Jairus

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 07:11 PM

No one here has registered a racing number yet so I will get it started.

Everyone posting numbers and entries is registered by just posting. I'll make a list later.
Myself, I think I will go with a 1/24th Maserati 250F driven by Juan Manuel Fangio and that gives me number..... #1! (ha)

Jairus H Watson - Artist
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#7 dc-65x

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 07:19 PM

Rodney and I will be number 2 and 3 :). Our cars are "California Specials" so we just need consecutive numbers.

Rick Thigpen
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#8 endbelldrive

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 07:22 PM

1/24 #28 Musitelli 1953 Ferrari 166 Abarth Spyder
1/32 #54 Ferrari Super Monza
Bob Suzuki

#9 Jairus

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:34 PM

Rick, very sorry. "Bigtone" on S.F. already got #2 at 1:41 this afternoon. Will #3 and #4 work?

Jairus H Watson - Artist
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#10 dc-65x

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:42 PM

You bet :)

Rick Thigpen
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#11 Howmet TX

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:11 AM

Ferrari TR250 & Lotus IX for me, old chap. Any number you like. I'll put an appropriate driver in when the time comes !

John Dilworth


#12 Jairus

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 06:47 PM

Watch out guys... the French are coming!
I posted the rules on FOLM and looks like the interest is there for quite a few entries. It's now a three way race SlotBlog vs. SlotForum vs. FOLM!
So far SlotForum has more entries. :)

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#13 endbelldrive

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:36 PM

Paper mache! Can we make out interiors out of that? :)
Bob Suzuki

#14 Jairus

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:37 PM

Yes.
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#15 Lone Wolf

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 02:59 PM

OK, this was deleted by accident. Was supposed to be 2 posts ago. Hey, nobodys perfect.

Anyway, this cover evoked the hole "wood " theme to me. Back when men were men with no roll bars and paper mache helmets.

http://www.ebay.com/...=item19d438d515

Greg, if you want to correct the post order please do, thanks

Joe Lupo


#16 don.siegel

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

Happened to run into this while looking for something else - so if you want to see a really authentic balsa racer from the early 60s, here it is - by no less an authority than the late José Rodriguez Jr., a rail and slot pioneer in the USA. In fact, this car looks like it may well have dated to the rail era, which probably ended by 1960 in the States, and was later converted to slot.

As you can see, the early slot cars were still pretty basic! He doesn't specify the motor, but it was probably something like a Pittman DC195, DC60 or similar. The magazine is from Jan-Feb 1963, so the car dates from at least 3 months earlier, and probably more...

Don

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#17 slotbaker

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:16 PM

Love the guide in that thing Don.
This is a cool thread.
:)

Steve King


#18 don.siegel

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:35 AM

Thanks Steve, glad you're enjoying it.

You're right, that guide is really something - and also a reminder of what it was like when you couldn't just walk over to your local hobby shop (what's that?) and buy the parts you needed.

Let's see, 1961-62 - probably about the only commercial guide available was the Strombecker from their sets, or an MRRC imported from England... and the old "curtain rail" used in all those Model Maker articles...

Don

#19 boxerdog

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:30 PM

While groping around for pieces, I uncovered a box that says it all!!!

Attached Images

  • 005b.jpg

David Cummerow

#20 Jairus

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:20 AM

Seems like weeks since I have made any progress on my entry. Been planning the chassis since I started and thanks to Mike Z. I got a good Pittman 196B. The first motor I managed to acquire had a bad brush and the fact that the motor was the last of it's breed meant that finding a replacement was near impossible. Anyway, for this project I found the bearings less than satisfactory. The biggest problem was the narrowness of the rear axle bearings on the Pittman 196B compared to the width of the car.
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Found another vintage endbell that might work and it also spreads the bearings out wider. I think it's a Champion item for a can drive Mabuchi.
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Next the forks were cut off the spare endbell and filed it smooth.
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Gears don't connect so the bracket needs cutting and trimming.
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Here is the rough cut bracket. I first added a stiffener rod to ensure the bracket remained at a 90 degree angle.
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The motor endbell now nests with-in the axle bracket ensuring good gear mesh. Motor mounts will now be adjustable front to rear and the crown gear allows adjustment to the left and right. Between the two I believe good gear mesh is possible.
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:)

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#21 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:57 AM

Gentlemen,

Being a Newbie to the Proxy racing format, are there any written rules or guidelines to follow?
I ask because the basic SOP and rules for this series are somewhat vague in the technical aspect.

If someone could just answer some basic questions to start off with it would help and I would appreciate it very much.

1. Was the standard track clearance of 1/16" established by this time, and is that what will be adhered to?

2.
a. Regarding car maintenance/set-up, will there be a designated "pit crew" to make regular inspection and and adjustments to the cars? I ask because not knowing the tracks/conditions they will race under, curious if each track has a different braid depth and if any adjustments to the guide at each track are allowed.
b. Who does the oiling of motor/braid prior to racing, and are the cars/motors cleaned after each race?

3. If maintenance/adjustments are allowed, should entrants be prepared to send along any special tools or instructions for their cars?

4. As for the cars themselves, will they be individually scrutinized for accuracy of scale, such as wheelbase, track, tire diameter etc? Will infringement result in a DQ, or a loss of points?

Thanks for any tips or help you can offer
Bruce W. Frye

#22 Jairus

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:38 PM

Bruce,

 

The rules are what they are.  If you plan to force the rules for handling purposes beyond what was done back in 1964 then the car will be graded on concourse accordingly.
1. There were no standard clearances back in 1964 in the scale classes.  A car was suppose to be built with a scale under body clearance and that would end up being much higher than 1/16".

 

2. There should not be any maintenance needed for only 4 races unless the cars break.  And I would be willing to bet you that none do!

 

3. Of course special tools such as a Knockoff wrench or muffler bearing adjuster   All tools will be returned to the builder, and before the deadline I will specify the shape and size of shipping box allowed.

 

4. Short answer: YES.  

Half the  cars credit will be given to concourse and that requires a realistic appearance and scale tire diameter. Haven't figured out a points structure yet. But thinking about asking a couple scale model car forums to do the judging.


Jairus H Watson - Artist
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#23 gascarnut

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:30 PM

Jairus:
 
2. There should not be any maintenance needed for only 4 races unless the cars break.  

This was an issue with the Balls Out Thingie Proxy and it was only two rounds. The braids on some (most) cars burned badly because they were not treated, and that affected performance very noticeably.

Dennis Samson
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Scratchbuilding is life
Life is scratchbuilt

Samson Classics


#24 Jairus

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:40 PM

These are completely different cars drawing much less current and traveling at way lower speeds Dennis. But... I am will instruct all the track directors to keep on the look out for wear and tear regardless.


Jairus H Watson - Artist
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#25 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:58 PM

I'm still in the early stage of chassis design and development, and was curious if a chassis with a drop arm might be more suitable for the varying track conditions and braid depth. This is what question 2.a. mainly stems from.

What I really lack are good references and pictures of pre-'65 chassis designs using Pittman 196 style motors. I don't have any books or magazines older than '67, and am finding it hard to imagineer a design that is both period and in the "spirit" of the Proxy. If someone could post more photos or links to pics, that would be of great help.

Also, with my choice of a MB W196 prototype to model, the 10 cars built had several wheelbase variants, so I am taking the best measurements from all of them to suit my own needs. Hope that fits within the scheme of things too.
Bruce W. Frye

#26 Jairus

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:13 PM

Bruce,

There are very few restrictions on chassis design and my suggestion is that, "yes indeed install a drop arm"!
I plan to. 

 

Although, I do not expect much movement be required as most of the tracks I have in mind will be flush.

 

And yes, I will post a thread showing photos of the tracks very soon. Just want to contact all the necessary parties soon as we get past Christmas holidays.


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Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#27 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 10:27 AM

Any news of the Race schedule??


Bruce W. Frye

#28 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:09 PM

Jarius, (Happy B-Day by the way :) )

It's now way past the Christmas Holiday's with April/Easter just around the corner.

What are the categories for Concours and the judging criteria?

Will the 1/32 and 1/24 scale classes be separated for racing and Concours?

Deadline and info on mailing etc?

Thanks,

Bruce


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#29 Jairus

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:26 PM

Coming soon Bruce. Been a very busy winter for me personally and a lot of the builders in Europe are behind on construction (including me).  We have two tracks here in the US set and one planned in the old world. I am still looking for a fourth track in Germany near the Nurbergring and have a couple friends I can call on in a pinch if worse comes to worse.

Concours will be posted and judged by modelers all around the world on the Model Cars Forum.

So... deadline is getting close but I want to give all builders a chance to get their entries done so nothing is set in stone.  

Between you and me and Cheater... I have been currently assembling my "Replicas and Miniatures" steering wheel.

IMG_0826-vi.jpg


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#30 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:17 PM

Not planning on building for this particular race, but:

 

I started racing with MRRC railracer kits in 1958.  Model Maker/Car Model magazine always had nice drawings for these wood carving craftsman..  When I transitioned to slots in 1960, I never ever did carve a shell although I have saved the drawings for reference use.  I built many a slotcar with 1/24-1/25 scale plastic kits.  I still have many of my pre 1965 1.32 racers with betta styrene vac form, and resin shells from braverman and classic and others.  I certainly have a stockpile of Pittman and Kemtron motors for future builds.  I buit many a ladder chassis with a 2 x 4 wood fixture with slots for the brass tubing in those days for the padlock motors...but ALL with preformed bodies of some sort.

 

Veteran of Aurora Cycle and Hobby and other raceways in and around Aurora, Illinois.


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#31 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:45 PM

Jairus,

 

Still patiently waiting for news and progress on this Proxy race. For now, do you have the specs for the two tracks in the USA that are confirmed, such as braid depth and track voltage?

 

Any info at all would be helpful and encourage me to continue.

 

Thanks,


Bruce W. Frye

#32 Jairus

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 10:06 AM

Braid depth on the first track (Edgewater Raceway) is 1/16" and track voltage is variable from 6 to 14v.

Braid depth on the second track (Pelican Park) is flush and track voltage is 12v.

 

Both tracks are routed wood.

 

I too would like some encouragement by the way.  We have some entries finished and fully tested. And others stalled including mine. But in my defense, my life of late has been just a bit too exciting!  I've had to pull back on a few projects and told valued customers that I am unable to fullfill any new orders until I can get myself caught up.  And this proxy is one of those projects I plan to get back on track soon.

Okay? 

For now I have three art projects on the drawing board that are past due.  So no slot building for a little while till my Masarati is done and we have stats on the two tracks in Europe.


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#33 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 11:05 AM

Thanks for the update Jairus. I too am in no hurry, but it's helpful to know as much as practical in order to keep all our projects in perspective.

As for myself, the wooden car has been my only project for the past 6 months, so I have a lot of time and interest invested and would like to see it come to fruition.

Best wishes on your other work and projects, but try to keep it fun and don't work too hard :)

Bruce

 


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#34 Jairus

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:57 PM

Bruce,

 

Thanks and of course I will get this Proxy on the track very soon.  A few of the interested parties are currently distracted with the "Lucky 13 Proxy" which just had it's first race a week ago.  Hopefully they and I will get back to the bench.  :)


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#35 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:10 PM

Jairus, you said " Braid depth on the first track (Edgewater Raceway) is 1/16" "

 

So you are saying that the braid contact surface is 1/16" recessed, as in 0.062"?

 

That seems pretty deep, not that it's a problem but would like to confirm if it indeed that much.


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#36 Jairus

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:17 PM

As much as .062.
But seems right around .040 lately.  

 

But that's why I went with a drop arm so I don't have to worry about all that chassis set up stuff.


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#37 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 07:59 PM

Jairus,

 

Can you offer any info on packaging for safely shipping these cars?

 

Will there be a standard sized box or carton for the 1/24 scale cars? I would like to start on a some sort of protective elements or holders to secure and protect the car within the box for mailing, so if there are any standard dimensions planned that would be helpful.

 

Will there be a standard weight or limit on the package? I have used 4-40 screws with non-standard 3/32" allens to mount my body, so planned on including a custom made allen driver with the car and this may effect the weight limit.

 

I will be very thankful for any help you can provide,

Bruce


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#38 Jairus

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 09:30 PM

Wrap bubble wrap around the car to a depth of one inch. Then place it into a box with two inches of foam pellets around that usually works for me.


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#39 Jairus

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 10:39 AM

It's TIME!
intropic2-vi.jpg
TIME to get racing that is!
We've talked about it plenty.
I've given everyone more than enough time to build.
There are racers all over the world soooooo... get your cars mailed in!

Address is: 
2013 Goodwood Proxy
c/o Jairus Watson
500 W Hills Way NW
Salem, Oregon 97304
USA

Paying for insurance and tracking is up to you. 
There is NO entry fee!

Only cost to the entrant is return postage, if you want your car back.
You can include it in the package or paypal the postal fee later to: jairuswtsn@aol.com
Please include return address inside legibly written along with your email address so we can correspond later.

That's all!
I will be reporting the first race date soon as the last car gets here.
All cars will be carefully photographed for the Concours voting to take place on Model Cars Magazine forum site.

I am considering removing my Maserati 250f from Concours after it was brought up that I used a photoetch steering wheel in the cockpit.

IMG_1212-vi.jpg

So far only one entrant has mentioned this....but, in order to remain totally neutral and host a fair competition.... I feel this is the right thing to do.
As for racing, I plan to let my car go, GO, GO!
 


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Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#40 dc-65x

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:38 PM

 

I am considering removing my Maserati 250f from Concours

 

Baloney says I :shok: .

 

Enter your Maserati Jairus. We can deduct some points for the modern parts if that makes others happy. You put a lot of work into your car and it deserves to be judged with all the others.


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#41 James Wendel

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 05:40 PM

I completely agree with Rick.  A 2% Concours deduct seems about right to me.   :D


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#42 SlotStox#53

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 05:58 PM

I'm not racing but even if I was I'd have no problem either way with your Maserati being in the concours!

Photo etched or not its just one part, as to me its the craftsmanship and overall car that's important. Just take a small % hit in score if it's even needed..

That beautiful car deserves to be judged !!!! :D


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#43 Jaak

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 07:34 PM

I would still have to calculate how much % in score should be deducted (to pass Jairus on points) should be around 98% deducted to give me a chance  :to_become_senile:

 

Just kidding,  for me no deduction is needed but I respect your final decision. :victory:


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#44 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:38 PM

Got my entry mailed today, should be in Salem by Monday according to the clerk.

Please excuse me for being late as I'm in the process of moving and also had to save up my allowance just so I could afford postage.

 

Best wishes and good luck to all the participants  :)


Bruce W. Frye

#45 n9949y

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:39 PM

Just got back from UK visit and for 3rd year attending the Goodwood Revival

 

IMG_0145_zps39e299af.jpg


Todd Messinger

Remember folks, traffic lights timed for 35 MPH, are also timed for 70!

#46 James Wendel

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:50 PM

That's it, Todd?  Just back from the Goodwood and all we get is one sentence and one picture?   :laugh2:


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#47 n9949y

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:14 PM

Hi James. Got many! A couple on the 1:1 Racing and rides thread.

 

Heard the Roseburg contingent dominated the PPS Vintage Stockcar race, 9/11.


Todd Messinger

Remember folks, traffic lights timed for 35 MPH, are also timed for 70!

#48 Bruce Wayne

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 06:21 PM

Jairus,

You have an unread PM. I would appreciate it greatly if you would RSVP.

Thanks in advance

Bruce


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#49 dc-65x

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 06:32 PM

Here's the latest from Jairus on where we are with the Proxy event:

 

We are holding a race next with the 8 entries we currently have. If any more show up before the first race they will be included too.

 

Next week Jairus will be heading down to a weekly race in Eugene. He'll be traveling there with fellow Salem racers Paul and Bob. He's planning on taking all the cars down to show the guys, take pictures and plan a race date.

 

Jairus will of course report back when a date is set, probably early January. He's setting the date after the holidays and that way I will have plenty of notice so I can hopefully make the drive.

 

So there's the latest news.

 

I think we all owe Jairus a big THANK YOU! for all the hard work he puts into these Proxy events. :clapping: :good: :victory:


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There's much more to come...


#50 Régis4446

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 01:13 PM

:good:Thank you very much for the information.

Take pictures and have fun with these cars

 


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