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Zapping Pittman magnets


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#1 dc-65x

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 02:14 PM

I was asked about zapping a Pittman 196 with the arm out. The arm is to be installed afterward. Hmmmmmm................I always thought that the old magazine scribes preached zapping open frame motors if the magnet or armature were ever removed. Removing either would "kill" the magnet.

 

So, I did a very limited but informative test on magnet zapping a Pittman 196A motor.

 

First picture is the assembled Pittman 196A that was zapped a while back:

 

CarNumber4-048.jpg

 

Next I removed the magnet........

 

CarNumber4-049.jpg

 

......and reinstalled the magnet and got this reading:

 

CarNumber4-050.jpg

 

So that is big drop. I rezapped the motor and she's happy again:

 

CarNumber4-051.jpg

 

Then I pulled the armature and to my surprise, got only a slight drop:

 

CarNumber4-052.jpg

 

I reinstalled the arm and got a lower reading, again to my surprise:

 

CarNumber4-053.jpg

 

The arm was removed and installed again and I got another drop:

 

CarNumber4-054.jpg

 

I zapped again and got a nice bump up in the gauss reading:

 

CarNumber4-055.jpg

 

So, what does all this mean :wacko2:

 

Pulling the magnet does seem to kill it until it's rezapped.

 

Pulling the arm is not as bad as I thought (on a Pittman 196A) but it's still not the best thing to do.


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#2 Lone Wolf

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 02:33 PM

Rick, extremely interesting. I wonder what effect this really has on performance. Since it would be very hard to tell lap time wise, how about a drag strip test? Something like 3 runs freshly zapped,3 with the magnet removed and reinstalled and the same with the arm. Then average them out. The strip test will help measure the torque, most important in my opinion. I suppose doing some laps before and after will give a feel for driveability and could be a good measure of performance as well. Just a thought.


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#3 Jairus

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 03:03 PM

Since you are testing.... try running the motor after testing. THEN check the meter.

What I think you are registering is the mass of the arm contributing to the total strength of the magnetic force.  But once the arm is powered up the flow of electricity will change the strength.  Therefore, I believe the arm has no bearing on the total strength of the magnet.  It is only the magnet mass and the side plates.  


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#4 idare2bdul

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 11:37 PM

If I pull the old magnet out it's because a non period correct neo replacement is going in.  :)


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#5 don.siegel

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 05:32 AM

That's great Rick, thanks for establishing some scientific facts! 

 

Now if we could only find a remagnetizer somewhere on the Old Continent....

 

Don 



#6 Hworth08

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 09:43 AM

Don,

I'm trying to find out how the LaGanke zapper was built. There was a "peg" on the bottom of the zapper that sat on the negative post of a car battery. A wire with a probe that was quickly touched to the postive post completed the zap.

Seven dollars in the day.
Don Hollingsworth

#7 dc-65x

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 01:04 PM

 
.....Now if we could only find a remagnetizer somewhere on the Old Continent....
 

 


Thanks Don,

Someone there just has to "bite the bullet" and get one. Maybe a club where the members could combine there resources. Of course there just may not be enough interest in the old junk to justify the expense. As for me, I've wanted one ever since I was a kid and saw them in the raceways   :)  :
 

Carlisle Ceramic Magnet Zapper

 

 


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#8 don.siegel

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 01:25 PM

Thanks Rick, that's very tempting - I almost don't mind the $799, ... but it's probably another $700 for the postage! Still, a possibility for a future trip to the STates, while the euro is still strong...

 

Don, I've got one of those little LaGanke zappers too, but have never actually tried it! It probably doesn't help that I don't have a car, hence, no car battery! A friend has one too, but I think his experiments were... inconclusive....! If I remember right, it's more shaped for cans, but don't really know if that thing is effective at all - anybody have some hard facts, like Captain Rick on the Pittmans? 

 

Don 



#9 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:38 PM

In the old days (1960's) , I took my alnico motors to an automotive repair shop that fixed speedometers  - they used a zapper there for some part of the process.


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#10 Gator Bob

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:48 PM

Gotta love those repair shops that 'fix' speedometers. People get zapped too.


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#11 boxerdog

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 07:28 PM

usually, they also serviced magnetos, thus had some simple but effective battery powered zappers.


David Cummerow

#12 Jocke P

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 09:02 AM

Here is a link to a Swedish Classic motor mag. where they build a zapper for old motorcycle flywheels.

http://www.classicmo...seringsapparat/

The Pictures are pretty much self explanatory...not sure how well the text will turn out if translated.

PM me if you want details explained from the text.

I am not regularly on the forum so it could be a while Before i reply.
Joakim Pegers

#13 BWA

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 09:19 AM

In the mid 70s, I acquired one of those big *** two coil monster commercial track Zappers. In the mid 80s, I sold it.

 

Somebody shoot me. :dash2: :bomb: :shok:


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#14 dc-65x

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 11:54 AM

Acquiring a big zapper was a big deal for me. But I just had to have one!  :dance3:  If I was going to work on the old "iron magnet" motors it was a must. Those magnets just go virtually dead when you pull them from their setup. :shok:


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#15 Jocke P

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 04:54 AM

This summer I will assemble a zapper in order to get my MPC 400 motors rejuvenated after i put nos magnets in them.

Is there a general orientation of the magnets / magnetic field on old motors, is "north" always on the left(?) if i look at the magnets from the comm end of the motor?


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#16 dc-65x

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 09:47 AM

I don't know Jocke. :unsure:   I check the polarity of the motor and orient the motor in the zapper to keep it the same.


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#17 Gary Bluestone

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 02:46 AM

Use a compass on the motor before taking it apart , to determine what the orientation is. I bought the zapper which was used by the Leisure Dynamics repairman here in Toronto. It works best on alnico however results are hard to determine. Unfortunately getting motors to zap through the mail in Canada is complex and expensive. The zapper is homemade consisting of a huge coil of wire connected to a large transformer. In the old days in the garage, we use to wrap a screwdriver with a coil of wire and touch both ends to the car battery terminals and instantly magnetized the screwdriver.


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#18 Jocke P

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 09:01 AM

I remember the screwdriver trick from when i was Young. Using a Compass is a very good suggestion, i have a minicompass somewhere....


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#19 dc-65x

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 10:16 AM

I absolutely LOVE my gauss meter. The before and after zapping readings and knowing the polarity is a real bonus:
 

It's been a while since my last toy...you see, I goofed. I tried to save $40 by buying this gauss meter:

GaussMeter-002.jpg

It's got a non-detachable probe which is a pain. The probe is also a bendable little weenie of a thing that makes using it also a pain:

GaussMeter-003.jpg

Now this is all just my opinion and if you have one of these and like it more power to you. I sent my back. With a 20% restocking fee and paying shipping and insurance both ways I lost over $80 blink.gif .

I now have this Wrightway gauss meter with a detachable rigid probe.........

GaussMeter-030.jpg

............and a neato secondary probe built into the housing:

GaussMeter-031.jpg

It seems very accurate too. This is a Versatec magnet that an industry professional Zapped and recorded the gauss reading on using industrial strength equipment. His methodology is to take a reading 1/3 of the way in along the magnets length on both ends and average the two readings. You can see the Wrightway got almost exactly the same reading:

GaussMeter-033.jpg

Here's the reading with the magnet centered over the sensor:

GaussMeter-032.jpg

Here's a Champion Blue Dot magnet:

GaussMeter-035.jpg

Now for something completely different smile.gif .....a Pittman DC-65X. Hmmmm, where to probe this sucker :shok: :laugh2:. Maybe here unsure.gif :

GaussMeter-036.jpg

...........or how about here blink.gif :

GaussMeter-037.jpg

Any Pittman Probologists out there with any tips smile.gif ?

Ownard..........

 

 

Now I don't use the probe much. I just lay the old motors on the box's built in sensor. I get very easy and consistent readings that way.


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#20 Jocke P

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 10:50 AM

Rick, the right Place to measure any open frame motor must imho be where the arm stack is, that is where the field will be of use...On my Dynocharger 400 motors, the magnetic force of interest would be between the two circular magnets, in the center of where the stack is....

 

Regardless of where the measurement is made, a stronger Reading will Always be an improvement.

 

Just me thinking, no education involved....

 

This will explain what goes into the meter....

 

http://www.coolmagne...om/magmeter.htm


Joakim Pegers

#21 Gary Bluestone

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 12:10 PM

Here's how to build a gauss meter which connects to your ammeter. I built one for $7.00. http://my.execpc.com...ey/magmeter.htm



#22 dc-65x

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 12:11 PM

Hi Jocke,
 
I'm just using the meter to get a before and after reading by placing the motor in the same place on the meter's grid. It might not be the "best" place to take the reading but it's consistent and will show any improvement:
 

Before and after:

zap1.jpg

 
zap3.jpg


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#23 SlotStox#53

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 12:25 PM

I recognise that motor Rick :D :laugh2: Your meter certainly does the trick :good: Perfect for before & after and shows exactly what you need to know.



#24 Jocke P

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 01:42 AM

I think getting a before and after reading with the motor exactly in the same position is as accurate as we can hope to get in this matter, I just love reading about what can be done with old motors and how it works out.


Joakim Pegers

#25 JohnnySlotcar

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 11:30 AM

Anyone have a picture of how to orient the pittman padlock motors in a wire wound zapper?


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#26 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 09:37 AM

The magnetizer 'poles' are placed at the magnet centers as are the lamination plates.  The Triktrax Zapper  you have should work fine., especially if you reverse the contact blocks so that the flat surface is next to the magnets instead of the can curved end.


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