64 replies to this topic

[NJ Racer]

Hey Mike Steube,

Are you, Dennis, and Philippe planning on running that chassis? I like your designs better.

[Noose]

Tony has made it pretty clear why we have what we do. We focused on keeping this thing Retro which was what we read over and over and over again as being the main thrust of this class and is the reason I got back into it. It was supposed to be representative of the period of the mid to late '60s. Scratchbuilt pan cars weren't around then. The only pan car I remember was the Russkit ones with the black pan chassis many of us bought as our first RTR cars.

What gets me is there seems to be the wanting desire for new, innovative creations for chassis that don't reflect what we did run back then but not the same liberalism when it comes to allowing more bodies. There are so many good-looking, "period correct" AFFORDABLE bodies out there for guys to choose from and that's why we chose to add so many to our approved list. It grows everyday!

[gascarnut]

I don't understand why anyone gives a crap about our rules and needs to criticize them. We don't say a thing about the West Coast rules. Never have...

If we come to LA, we know what the rules are and will play by them.

And if we come to the East Coast then we will reciprocate the respect.

But we're talking about something different here, and not criticizing anyone, just trying to find out whether we can run our designs in an event that is aimed at including everyone. Since Mike Swiss decided to use the East Coast rules as his baseline, we are asking these questions, and not expecting answers from anyone except him, I guess, since it's his race.

Peace, brothers....

[Noose]

I don't build them because I like the traditional look.

That's cuz you a '60s racing kinda retro guy!

[Tex]

I apologize for opening up Pandora's Box.

Gotta go to lunch. Everyone... deep breath, chill... it will all be worked out. No one has committed a crime and we all love slot cars.

[MSwiss]

1) On a personal level, I agree with Mike Steube that the pan style chassis isn't retro enough and also with Noose's comment about chassis innovation being allowed in a class that clearly states on top of the rules: "reflecting the spirit of the mid-1960s racing era".

2) As a raceway owner/part time tech director, with no apparent interest in the Sano from Paul Sterrett or other SoCal greats like Bryan Warmack who favor this style of chassis, the rules were originally drafted with my upcoming weekly racing in mind. I have too many of my racers who work in machine/tool & die shops (four off the top of my head)who have access to laser, EDM, and water jet cutters.

The "EDM or Laser-cut parts of any material are not allowed" rule is unenforcable. While I don't think any of my locals would skirt the rules by lasering out a piece, rough-filing the perimeter and putting a few Dremel knicks in it, I want to make sure a more mass produced, "super chassis" doesn't surface before or after the Sano that obsoletes piano wire cars.

3) The above being said, the good news is that the Slotblog has provided good documentation of past retro chassis. This being a friendly race, all previously-built chassis, that have run legally in the various D3/retro style series will be grandfathered in for the Sano race only at Chicagoland.

The original rules post has been edited to reflect that.

[Noose]

F1s rule, Mike!

[gascarnut]

3) The above being said, the good news is that the Slotblog has provided good documentation of past retro chassis. This being a friendly race, all previously-built chassis, that have run legally in the various D3/retro style series will be grandfathered in for the Sano race only at Chicagoland.

The original rules post has been edited to reflect that.

Thanks, Mike, I'm sure that's all we wanted to hear.

[John Gorski]

I would like to simplify the East Coast outlook and explain why our
rules are this way. If we didn't have the chassis rule eventually someone will
build a Brass car like this picture and it will be a brass Flexi car someone will just
stamp out. At this point we might as well all run our JK and Parma Flexi sidewinders
because the original intent of Retro scratchbuilt will be lost.

[Pappy]

I used old pre-cut brass pans from American Line (REH's brand) on my Can-Am chassis. Are they legal?

[MSwiss]

On my original post, I did point out in reference to legal GT bodies that the list will evolve but it got edited out.
I've now added a rule #8 that addresses all the bodies. Note no new additions after Sept 15 will be allowed to race in the Sano.

Whew, I'm ready for some "beer talk" on one the other Sano threads.

[MSwiss]

I used old pre-cut brass pans from American Line (REH's brand) on my Can-Am chassis. Are they legal?

Of course they are. They are stamped.

[tonyp]

John, hey that looks like my new car. LOL... The sad thing is it will probably run well and end the intent of the class as soon as there is a brass stamped one...

[Tex]

And here I thought I would return from lunch and have to read the riot act to you guys! LOL!

Again, I apologize for opening Pandora's Box, BUT... it had to be done. It's better it was done here and now as opposed to during tech inspection at the race. To you East Coast doods, my intent was never to question why this rule is this way or that rule is that way. I just needed a clarification of a rule that I thought my chassis may be in violation of. Of course, I wouldn't have been happy had it been found illegal but I ALWAYS play by the rules. The East Coast rules are as valid as the Left Coast rules.... different strokes for different folks. And, yes, I KNOW you don't need MY approval for your rules to be valid. I was going to build three new chassis anyway. ( Build three new chassis' in just six weeks?!?! THAT'S gonna be cuttin' it close for me! )

[tonyp]

Tex,

You had some concerns and it was good you asked.... So far everything I have seen of yours is legal and you are welcome to come race out east any time.... It is good to see Mike is going to grandfather all chassis for the race. This is what we have done for our series; any thing previously run is legal for our up coming series.

Eventually there will be some national rules but it is way too early to even think about that. We need some time to see what rules wind up working and which ones do not. By taking a rule or spec from here and there we will wind up with a good set of rules that will keep things from spiraling out of control technology and cost wise (the two biggest killers of any scale of competitive racing). No one has a perfect set of rules. That's why we have made changes to ours and will continue to do so as we feel necessary.

If it ever gets to the point we are running chassis like the one John posted then I know I will have lost interest and I am sure many others like yourself who enjoy building will, too. I know I get more pleasure working out what I want to try, building it, and seeing that it indeed in some cases runs better then what I had previously built. That is Retro racing for me. The fact I have done well lately is nice but it is the building that is the drug. I don't finish one chassis before I have already figured out what I want to try next...

[Hworth08]

The "EDM or Laser-cut parts of any material are not allowed" rule is unenforcable. While I don't think any of my locals would skirt the rules by lasering out a piece, rough-filing the perimeter and putting a few Dremel knicks in it, I want to make sure a more mass produced, "super chassis" doesn't surface before or after the Sano that obsoletes piano wire cars.

I'm inclined to agree with Mike. The only elements of the pre-anglewinder days that can be exactly duplicated are the bodies and frames. The bodies are close, the frames resemble a bit of what an inline would have become. Sort of sad, for a dollar or two the frames could (and still can) be extremely period-correct and easier to build.

[MSwiss]

What a lot of guys are afraid of is cars that are dominated by one large piece of brass with a bracket attached.

I also would lose interest if the chassis in this class resembled F(D3)CR cars. Nothing wrong with FCRs, but we already have that.

In real car terms, if you were at a drive-in with a line of 12 new Shelby Mustangs with various sets of cool wheels and great paint jobs and one '66 GT350 in mediocre shape, what car do you think most guys in their 50s would gather around?

[Ron Hershman]

All existing built chassis that can be documented in Slotblog will be allowed to run (AKA West Coast style pan chassis). This style of chassis will not be allowed to run in Chicagoland weekly races.

Um hummm... What "IF" a racer has built one of these "evil" WCS pan chassis, but has not raced it, and therefore not documented it here at the Blog? I am sure there are a guy or two, somewhere, who has built a similar chassis, but has not yet had a chance to race it, but might have been thinking about bringing it and racing it at the "Sano".

Has this been considered yet???

Maybe it could make for a new commercial...The West Coast Pan chassis... please leave it at the house. Maybe, The West Coast Pan chassis... don't bring it to the Sano. Both kinda along the line of the American Express commercial. LOL.

[Tex]

I hear ya, Mike. But we aren't talking about standing around and just LOOKING at these things. I liken myself to David in a "David and Goliath" scenario. If all I got is a mediocre '66 GT 350, I would be absolutely DELIGHTED if I could whup up on just one of those dozen pretty new Shelbys! I'd have braggin' rights over at least ONE pretty boy!

[MSwiss]

I am sure there are a guy or two, somewhere who has built a similar chassis, but has not yet had a chance to race it, but might have been thinking about bringing it and racing it at the "Sano".

Ron,
Unless you can quote a name and have him confirm this with a post of his own with pictures in the next 60 minutes, you are NOT sure.

If one of the little chance scenarios you waste time dreaming up does occur, I'll make a ruling I feel is fair. As I've said, my ruling was to prevent mass-produced brass sheets from invading the Sano and our weekly racing.

While myself and others are anxious to see you and your excellent brand of racing back in Chicago, if you are going to walk in with a "glass half empty" attitude, it might be better that you stay home.

[Ron Hershman]

Mike,

Just trying to play it all out before the scenario may take place the day of the race. I am confident you will make a fair decision if it happens.

[MSwiss]

I hear ya, Mike. But we aren't talking about standing around and just LOOKING at these things. I liken myself to David in a "David and Goliath" scenario. If all I got is a mediocre '66 GT 350, I would be absolutely DELIGHTED if I could whup up on just one of those dozen pretty new Shelby's! I'd have braggin' rights over at least ONE pretty boy!

Maybe you didn't fully understand. While I know the new Mustangs are faster, handle better, more comfortable, etc., because of technology marching on, hanging around the old one gives me that warm fuzzy feeling where for a split second, you feel like your hair isn't as gray and have forgotten about your aches and pains.

We also race and enjoy stuff that's more sophisticated at C/Raceway. It's just something different than the Sano.

[Pappy]

Mike, I'll loan you mine if you'll loan me yours. But you gotta promise to race mine.