84 replies to this topic

[TSR]

But remember that in '64, the sponge tire of the day was the open cell type like the Mille Miglia sponge. Or the Veco airplane tire.

 

Or the Graupner tires! Best of period according to many, until the closed-cell gray spongies introduced by Tiny's.

[don.siegel]

Or the Graupner tires! Best of period according to many, until the closed-cell gray spongies introduced by Tiny's.

All the same thing; i.e. the Graupner model airplane tires, which were called German sponge, were sold by Veco, Mila Miglia, and other companies, and as Rocky says they were the top tire until the closed-cell spongies came along (VC - remember them? Van Cleeve's I think...)

Don

[idare2bdul]

I almost have the drawing done, but I think I'll also draw the high-speed figure 8 that Jack built, but none of us ever raced on....it was almost like driving a Talladega or Daytona restrictor plate race, almost., and this was before Nascar implemented those infamous carb plates.

There was a track in the San Fernando Valley that was used both as a four-lane drag strip and as an oval. The turns, while very banked, were pretty tight.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi,

So, with all the noise... you think we could try another vintage convention where MY AMT smokes the Cox cars?

Grin.

I actually have some NOS Mille Miglia still sealed in packs. Bought a bunch in the day and found them instantly obsolete with the greys. Actually, someone was making closed cell black as well. Many tracks in the day still having some attempt at scale required black.

For the life of me, I cannot remember the maker. Associated? Riggen?

Worse, a lot of tracks with the wrong surface and no chems allowed were still either silicone or sil-coated sponge.

Yesterday the LEEPSTER was by the house, saw some silicone-coated sponge, and had no idea what they were! SoCal just had better track surfaces!

Fate

[TSR]

Hi Rocky,

In all my research, I find that only a couple of small concerns had discovered closed cell sponge tires, and not before mid-1965. In fact Riggen simply followed the trail to Rubatex LONG after Tiny's had their gray sponge all over the local pro cars. A simple observation of period documents shows that until mid 1965, Rubatex rubber (which was really the ONLY source in the USA for such foamed neoprene) was basically unknown. After Rubatex realised that there was a market for their product in slot car racing, they began offering their product to all the big companies, mostly in the LA area. Classic was the largest buyer for a while, offering all kinds of colors including red, pale green, orange, blue, and even pink. Riggen limited themselves to gray and black, and later red. Associated offered the best tires (but almost two years later) in pale blue, orange, gray and black.

The simple truth is that until Tiny's popularized the closed cell sponge, almost everyone with serious chances at winning was using the Graupner "Rekord Elastik" tires sold by Polk's. I am not even counting the silicone users as they stood no chance against good foam tires.

[mcseitz]

I've been meaning to make it to one of those conventions all these years. Perhaps if I could get P to tune the Lotus' chassis, Hershman to rewind the 36D, and hire someone named Steube to drive, your AMT's record could fall.

Being an ASU (not Arizona) alum makes me believe anything is possible lately.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi,

P, I don't remember SEEING Tinys tires before '66. So, I wasn't talking about the time line like you.

But as I said above, the surfaces and local rules were such, around the country in '65, I had several sets of tires for my cars. Sponge, sil-sponge, RUBBER, and silicone. Depends on the track surface, how dirty it was, and what sorts of things you were allowed.

While living in Goldsboro, NC, the track owner decided to scoop up a few of his hot racers and pop over to Kinston one night for a serious money race. The tracks in Goldsboro were monsters. There was a 220' figure-eight with 80 degree banks, a 155' "roadcourse" with no straight longer than 20', a 100' figure-eight, and a drag strip. All excited, the owner thought we would go "poach" on the other track. It was in a bowling alley and it was an American 90' black. We were on sponge, but THEY didn't allow wintergreen or anything. Baby bottom slick for the sponge. But always playing, I had some MONOGRAM RUBBER on one set of wheels. Qualified third, won the race (me?), and took the money. I was the only guy from OUR track to even make the main. And while the other locals were using rubber(?), my "secret" was that I had glued and trued the rubber! This was '64. The car was a Midwest style pan chassis, no drop arm. THEY were super lite, usually modified aluminum frames of some sort.

The upside of the "BIG" venues like SoCal and the like, is that there was enough organization and pushy manufacturers that the conditions from track to track were more consistent than racing in the "backwater" tracks.

Fate

[BWA]

Or the Veco airplane tire.

[TSR]

Or the Graupner "Rekord Elastik" used by all the fast guys then...!

[tonyp]

That's what we used until the U-Go blue tires came out...

[Vay Jonynas]

Since I started this thread nearly fifteen years ago, let me say that over that length of time I've gained the experience/knowledge and I do get it these days. I've seen many pictures of Cox slot car kits on the internet as well as in Philippe's excellent new Slot Car Dreams book and kits such as these have more than won me over:

 

1/25 Dan Gurney Ford Galaxie

 

 

 

1/32 Cheetah

 

 

 

1/32 Ford GT

 

 

 

Beautiful!

 

With the additional info I've now found in Philippe's book, I'm now in the process of adding more Cox kits to my Want list.

 

[Vay Jonynas]

As far as for my good collector friend Vay Jonynas, I offer these as evidence and rest my case:

















Please note that in many cases, other companies COPIED Cox's box graphics and not the opposite. Strombecker and most Japanese companies copied both Cox and Monogram's box art.

Cox slot cars were also some of the VERY FEW that actually worked with no modifications, alterations, grinding, or filing of any kind straight out of the box, and there was no need to replace ANY parts to make them work. Try that on a Monogram, Revell, or Strombecker or any other, and see how long they last before something falls off or the gears chew each other. Indeed, some slot cars out-performed the Cox models, but today, virtually ALL Cox cars found, even if in miserable body shape, WILL work immediately on track. Quite an accomplishment in reliability I'd say.

 

Unfortunately all the excellent pictures that Philippe posted here have been lost somehow. It seems that some type of programming glitch a few years ago eliminated all the pictures hosted on this forum. Some of the pictures Philippe posted here may perhaps still be found on the LASCM site or in his excellent new Slot Car Dreams book.

 

 

[Bill from NH]

Usually when photos on here get lost, it's because they weren't hosted on here. So, when wherever they are hosted changes, dumps, or goes belly-up, we see all kinds of dead links. I don't know about these particular photos, but PDL has been known to delete his own photo galleries in the past. I've seen it happen,

[don.siegel]

Hey Vay, welcome back - and thanks for following up on this 15 years later! 

 

Just read the whole thread again... 

 

Don 

[Vay Jonynas]

I do my best!

 

[NHBandit]

I'm not a pro racer and never was back in the day. But I was that snotty nose kid that discovered slot racing right when it was becoming extremely popular.

 

I had the required Cox Chaparral (first version) and thought I was the coolest kid on the block. Until my best buddy bought a Classic Manta Ray and left me in the dust like my car was chained to a stump.

 

My answer to that was to buy a Gar Vic Coronado which gave me a fighting chance.

 

Soon after I discovered real hotrods and girls and that ended my slot racing until recently. 

 

Thanks for the trip down memory lane. 

[Vay Jonynas]

I tried to get this kit on Ebay ten days ago:

 

 

 

 

I was absolutely annihilated.

 

So a Cox Cheetah remains close to the very top of my Want List of slot car kits. These things can't be rushed though. Eventually I hope!

 

[Vay Jonynas]

I also got outbid on this gem:

 

 

 

The Cox Ford GT didn't go nearly as high as the Cox Cheetah but had I pursued it I would have merely forced the buyer to pay a higher price. I don't believe he was going to be deterred given what happened in the other auctions. 

 

[Vay Jonynas]

So I succeeded in scoring this Cox 1/24 scale Ford GT two weeks later!







The Ford GT is among Cox's all around best when combining both appearance and performance. (The Team Modified version was even better though!) I still want a 1/24 scale Cox Cheetah though plus Cox's 1/32 scale versions of the two cars.

 

[don.siegel]

Not sure to which Team Modified car you're referring, but the one above is not one of them! 

 

The TM cars were clearly marked and had a different chassis, motor and rear wheels, as shown in the Cheetah below. 

 

Don 

 

 

 

[Vay Jonynas]

Whoops! Sorry. I goofed. 

 

 

 

I failed to notice that the "Team Modified" kits were clearly identified as such with the addition of the words on the box. I've edited my previous post so as not to promulgate misinformation.

 

[Jairus]

 

I don't get it. Why the cachet surrounding Cox?

 

The kits I've seen came in a relatively unattractive semi-generic box with a tick mark on the side for identification purposes. The cars themselves were molded of styrene plastic that was not up to the quality of that used by Monogram or AMT. Moreover, they were too flat to be entirely up to scale and did not even mate up to the chassis very well.

Why then are Cox kits so prized by collectors in comparison with Monogram, AMT, and K&B/Aurora kits?

Back to your original question Vay, because they are special!
They produced quality products before slot cars (model aircraft mostly) and when they got into slot cars they produced excellent cars for the time.  They even modified the lines to make them better.
The molding might not be up to the snuff of AMT, but that's because AMT got it's start as a model car manufacturer.  That is why Dynamic, Monogram and K&B had such beautiful hard bodies, because they went straight to the model manufacturers or were one prior to making slot cars.

Cox on the other hand did everything in-house which is a testament to their compassion and dedication.
We as modelers have the talent to make them better.... for example:

 

 

[Jaeger Team]

Back to your original question Vay, because they are special!
They produced quality products before
slot cars (model aircraft mostly) and when they got into slot cars they produced excellent cars for the time.  They even modified the lines to make them better.
The molding might not be up to the snuff of AMT, but that's because AMT got it's start as a model car manufacturer.  That is why Dynamic, Monogram and K&B had such beautiful hard bodies, because they went straight to the model manufacturers or were one prior to making slot cars.

Cox on the other hand did everything in-house which is a testament to their compassion and dedication.
We as modelers have the talent to make them better.... for example:


 

 

Sublime and supreme in quality