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Ball bearings - shields or no shields, and why?


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#31 MSwiss

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:36 AM

 If you got the air hitting the stack at the 'right' angle and the brushes were out it was probably spinning faster then it has before. :bomb:

 

 

I had no trouble hitting the right angle.

 

IIRC, I did it with the arm outside the can, spinning it in just one bearing.

 

I guess the fact the BB never blew, was a testimony to the quality.


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#32 Gator Bob

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 01:21 AM

 

I had no trouble hitting the right angle.

 

IIRC, I did it with the arm outside the can, spinning it in just one bearing.

 

I guess the fact the BB never blew, was a testimony to the quality.

 

Wow .... you are .. way.. lucky you didn't lose any balls ...  lol


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#33 HarV Wallbanger III

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:35 AM

"High School auto shop rule # 8   Falls under 'wheel bearing clean and re-pack'

 

Never spin roller or ball bearings with compressed air. "

 

I agree Bob. The reason is.... with "shop air" you can easily exceed the RPM limits of such a low RPM bearing keeping in mind that this wheel bearing would never see such high RPM's that slot car bearings have to be able to operate at....even in a slow slot car.

 

Potatoes and oranges.....

 

Use canned air and common sense. Just picking up the back end of a slot car and hit the controller will far exceed the RPM that I see cleaning them. Don't do what I do......BANG!    


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Barney Poynor
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Hello my name is Barney and I was... I am addicted to glue, magnets, and wings... I have been clean and sober years now... NOW I'm hooked on 1/32 and HO club track racing! DANG!

 

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#34 Don Weaver

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:24 AM

Barney,

 

What you are overlooking is that in a slot car or any other application for that matter the bearing design is based on the outer race remaining stationary and the inner race rotating.  With the outer race "captured" by the pillow block, tube or bracket it cannot expand and thus "release" the spinning balls.  It doesn't matter if the inner race expands since the balls and outer race ID limit its expansion.  Spinning the bearing with the inner race stationary and the outer race rotating in free air (instead of being constrained) is simply inviting a disaster.  I have seen the consequences of an exploded bearing and it's ugly.  I won't caution you anymore, I just hope you're lucky if one ever does let loose.  For all the rest of you, please don't do it.......

 

Don Weaver


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#35 HarV Wallbanger III

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:55 AM

Here is what I said Don:

"I blow-spin the bearings with a old arm with air and flush if using in a motor and axles. I do the same using a gear on the axle then again flush."

 

Don, what you are overlooking is the outer race weather in the motor or in a chassis IS "captured"..... Did I say I cleaned them outside a "captured" environment?  No I put a old arm in setup and spin it up with canned air. I do the same with a chassis and axle and gear in it that has BB's.

 

This is getting funny ...... Please go on...


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Barney Poynor
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Hello my name is Barney and I was... I am addicted to glue, magnets, and wings... I have been clean and sober years now... NOW I'm hooked on 1/32 and HO club track racing! DANG!

 

"Even if you're on the Right Track, you'll get run over if you just sit there!"

If you remember
screw-on braid, motors that look like padlocks, that dang fuse wire in Cox controllers, "hand" painted bodies, the very first can motors from Mabuchi, and the smell of wintergreen then you are OLD!... like me!

Enjoy life! Race hard and often! "Nobody gets out alive"


#36 Jairus

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:39 PM

The processor on my computer died Friday morning.
So I have been off-line sort of since then and till new parts arrive... have to depend on the generosity of friends, but that's not the reason for my post.

I was working on a Hard Body NASCAR project yesterday and while messing with the rear axle ball bearing installation I learned two things.

#1 The German made ball bearings I use are shielded and packed with a high quality grease.  I know this because I removed the shield.

 

#2 The shields are easy to remove and re-install if need be!

 

Ha! Take that "bearing know it all's".

 

Seems there is a small "C" keeper that holds the shield in place. That "C" ring keeper is flat and easy to remove with a #11 exacto blade, but you might need a pair of 10x magnifier glasses to do so.  Once the keeper is carefully removed the shield can be pried off. The bearing can then be cleaned and re-packed or left off all together.
If one doesn't destroy (bend) any of the components, one can re-assemble the item for full long life of use.

This I learned on the bearings I source from Ralph Klose and have sold to many Slot Blog members here.  Though, I am getting low on supplies of late. 

 

P.S. My Hard Body NASCAR is running 4 1/8" rear axle ball bearings since the damn thing is pushing the scales at 280g!  Can you imagine the forces applied to the tires and bearings at those speeds?

 

Hope to have my computer back by Thursday by the way.


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#37 dc-65x

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:37 PM

Hi Jairus,

 

Where are you getting your German ball bearings from?

 

The ProSlot bearings with shields I had didn't have the little C-clip but were pressed in. I wasn't very successful removing them.

 

The VBX 1/8 x 1/4 single shields have the little C-clip and I could pop them right out as you did. But there probably not made in Germany! I imagine they're made by local villagers squatting in a hut on the island of Kill-a-ming-pongo :shok:


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#38 Pablo

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:10 PM

"The German made ball bearings I use are shielded and packed with a high quality grease"

 

Given that, do you really think you need to remove it ?

Do you think an Acetone bath without shield removal would work ?

 

Thanks for your experience, Jairus :good:  :)


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#39 Jairus

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 06:59 PM

 

Where are you getting your German ball bearings from?

 

 

My friend and customer "Ralph Klose". He is some sort of local distributor of industrial products. He sometimes asks to pay in product... in this case was a gross of 1/8" and 3/32" ball bearings. I have been using them for many years and selling them for the last year. 

 

"The German made ball bearings I use are shielded and packed with a high quality grease"

 

Given that, do you really think you need to remove it ?

Do you think an Acetone bath without shield removal would work ?

 

 

This grease would need to be removed by pulling the shields first. But then.... what's the benefit? The grease allows smooth operation and long life.  I have been installing them in my proxy cars, race cars and project for years with NO failures.


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#40 Bill from NH

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:44 PM

Using an ultrasonic cleaner with the acetone or another degreaser will clean the oil & grease from a shielded bearing. We would clean out shielded GRW 6 mm X 2 mm motor bearings this way before soldering them in a can to eliminate the possibility of annealing the bearing. I've never soldered in axle bearings, only used a Loctite Retaining Compound, nor seen a reason for cleaning out their grease. I've got 40 yr. old installed axle bearings that still spin freely. :)


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#41 Pablo

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:00 PM

Bill, it appears you are contradicting yourself. 

"Using an ultrasonic cleaner with the acetone or another degreaser will clean the oil & grease from a shielded bearing. We would clean out shielded GRW 6 mm X 2 mm motor bearings this way

then

"nor seen a reason for cleaning out their grease"

Please clarify, Sir.


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#42 Old pink can guy

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:18 PM

Pablo Brake Kleen from Pep girls or Any one Auto Zone Will do the trick just make sure it's the one in the red can not the green one it has Chlorine in it thust me. I did auto repair for 32 years.
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#43 Bill from NH

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:02 PM

Bill, it appears you are contradicting yourself. 

"Using an ultrasonic cleaner with the acetone or another degreaser will clean the oil & grease from a shielded bearing. We would clean out shielded GRW 6 mm X 2 mm motor bearings this way

then

"nor seen a reason for cleaning out their grease"

Please clarify, Sir.

 

No contradiction. We cleaned out motor bearings with a degreaser in an ultrasonic cleaner. Since I didn't & still don't solder in axle bearings, I had no need to clean them likewise. :)

 

I put the bearings in a small glass jar filled with degreaser. I then put this jar in the ultrasonic cleaner's tank which was filled with water. Since ultrasonic waves travel through glass the same as a liquid, this eliminated the need to use a tank full of degreaser to clean a pair of bearings.


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Bill Fernald

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#44 Pablo

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:14 PM

So, you de-greased them in an ultrasonic cleaner, yet had no need to de-grease them.

?????? 


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#45 Bill from NH

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:23 PM

Go back & re-read my posts & you'll find I said I degreased the motor bearings but not the axle bearings.This was done because I soldered in motor bearings, but glued in axle bearings. I won't further confuse you by stating what I did with flanged motor meaings when they became available. :sarcastic_hand:


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Bill Fernald

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#46 Old pink can guy

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:25 PM

Bill we did not have them In the Golden years. What were you thinking?
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#47 Bill from NH

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:40 PM

Ken, what are you missing now????? What were you missing when?????
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Bill Fernald

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#48 Pablo

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 10:03 PM

Aha, Bill, I realize my mistake now.  I have motor BB's on my mind so much lately, I didn't see the words :laugh2:

I hereby don my dunce cap for 15 minutes and stand in the corner :good:

What you said, makes perfect sense now. :D


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#49 Gator Bob

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 10:45 AM

Pablo Brake Kleen from Pep girls or Any one Auto Zone Will do the trick just make sure it's the one in the red can not the green one it has Chlorine in it thust me. I did auto repair for 32 years.

 

The best degreaser going... IMO. 

 

BTW: wouldn't greased BBs have more drag then cleaned and (light) oiled?

 

I degrease to Loctite BB's in.

Degrease and then add one drop of oil before soldering to keep from getting flux in it. ... No?


Edited by Bob Israelite, 27 May 2013 - 03:14 PM.

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#50 Old pink can guy

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:59 PM

Bob If it works why mess it up? Ken.
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#51 Jairus

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 01:33 PM

A sealed and greased bearing has much less friction than a lubed oillite.  That's why we use them.  But an open bearing with even light oil will attract dust and dirt.

While a sealed bearing keeps the dirt out. No muss, no fuss!

 

Are you guys such good drivers that you notice the difference between a sealed bearing and an open bearing with light oil?  I mean... COME ON REALLY!?!?!


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#52 Old pink can guy

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 02:15 PM

  Jarius back in the late 60's early 70's I think we used the SKF's. Never had a bearing failure. Unless you soldered them in and blew it. Rears only. My Pink Cans never let me down. 


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#53 MSwiss

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 02:50 PM

If you're looking to get an axle assembly, or a BB front wheel to spin the longest, use naptha to flush

out any lube and then add a bit more as your pseudo lube.

 

Whether that would translate to faster lap times, I doubt it.

 

As far as a greased BB, remember 99+ % of applications for a BB, don't involve trying to get an extra .01, racing against other guys,

with miniature racing cars.


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Mike Swiss
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#54 Gator Bob

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 03:39 PM

 

Are you guys such good drivers that you notice the difference between a sealed bearing and an open bearing with light oil?  I mean... COME ON REALLY!?!?!

 

 

I'm not a very good driver... been told that I really suck at it..... 

 

Maybe ? I shouldn't think about making the car go faster till I catch up.  :nea:How ever do you want it 

 

... but races can be won with the power off too .. ya know. :to_become_senile:

 

I wasn't addressing sealed, shielded or open cage .. only resistance due to viscosity and the installation methods of Ball Bearings that I personally use.

 

If you're looking to get ..... a BB front wheel to spin the longest,

 

More Roll and less Rock  :roflmao: Wheeeeeee....


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