51 replies to this topic

[havlicek]

OK, so the JK website has lots O' parts, but few pictures of said parts.  What I want to be sure of, is the "Hawk 6" the motor with the white end bell that will clear a regular sized com and comes with the extra pair of brushes?  Need to know for an order.

 

thanks in advance, john

[MSwiss]

Yes, it is.

 

It has the Neo blend magnets.

 

The Hawk is the one with the black endbell and ceramic mags.

[havlicek]

Thanks mucho Mike!

 

-john

[Gator Bob]

Not an expert on these but I though the white endbell needed to be 'clearanced' for larger 'regular' comms.

Also thought I saw (a puddy tat) a pre-clearanced version for sale ... thinking it was black. 

 

<sarc> Glad to be of so little help

 

IMO - the Hawk6 is the best motor value out there right now. They really push a GRoup-F car around pretty good.

[havlicek]

Hi Bob,

 

     I was "pretty sure" the black endbell was the original narrow clearance one and the white one was ready to go for standard sized coms.  In any case for my purposes, I can always clearance the end bells.  I agree about the Hawk being a great value motor too.  I would like it if the bearing strap were more robust...more like a C can scaled down a bit, but it's otherwise a great little motor.

 

-john

[Phil Irvin]

Yea...For the bucks.... They can't be beat. I had one toss a wire & put in a Pro slot Hawk American arm...WOW....Epoxy the end bell bushing in on all white end bells is a must tho....

 

          OLPHRT

          PHIL I.

[havlicek]

 

Epoxy the end bell bushing in on all white end bells is a must tho....

 

10-4 on that Phil...forgot to mention that one!  Anyway, it's a pretty neat package...about as close to a scaled down C can as your gonna get.  Cheap as chips too!

 

-john

[SlotStox#53]

Was looking at this particular motor the other day and wondering the same thing ! Thanks for the info Mike ,John and Phil

Our of curiosity what sort of gear ratio is a good starting point for these cheap & powerful motors?
Are they too powerful for say a scratch built 1/32 car ? Haven't used them before and maybe building some club cars for my Dads wooden track and like the look of the Hawk 6

[JohnnySlotcar]

Try the regular hawk. Without the neo magnets it is a very smooth, yet fast long lasting motor. Thehawk 6 has too much torque for most club racing.

[SlotStox#53]

Thank you for the advice, having never ran one before wanted to check before making a few cars and finding them un raceable.

[Phil Irvin]

Great, fast motor for a wing car with the Pro Slot Hawk arm and in a hi down force GTP body...

 

     OLPHRT

       PHIL I.

[Gator Bob]

Thanks Phil and John, for the tips.

I didn't know about the bushing. I've been running it stock right off the wall.

 

What is the OD/air gap.... anyone check? John, have you done any 'H' winds on these lil' dynamos?

[Mark Crowley]

Epoxy the end bell bushing in on all white end bells is a must tho....
 
          OLPHRT
          PHIL I.

What kind of epoxy should be used for the bushing to plastic?
Mark

[SlotStox#53]

Bob, John has done some H winds on the hawk 6 ,check out his rewinding thread He has done some sweet arms for the little motor!!

[Phil Irvin]

I have used what I have on the shelf. 5min. to ---. I have also use thick super glue. Takes about 5 min to dry but 12 hr. to be really solid. I have not had one come out yet. I like one that is kinda thick so it won't go all over the place.

 

             OLPHRT

              PHIL I.

[Samiam]

How does the HAWK compare to the Chi-armed PS 4002?

 

Does anyone know wind specs on the Hawk?

[Gator Bob]

Sam, I have not tried one in a IRRA Stock Car to compare but I believe the WOW factor would be way up. In a Can-Am car .... zoooom....

[Marty N]

How does the HAWK compare to the Chi-armed PS 4002?

 

Does anyone know wind specs on the Hawk?

65/30

[havlicek]

 

John, have you done any 'H' winds on these lil' dynamos?

 

 

I have done some Bob...maybe a dozen or so.  The motor is "pretty much" like a smaller C can and anything from a fairly "big wire" arm to a #30 wind can work, depending on the intended use.  I believe it was Mike Swiss that first realized that reducing the brush face using specially contoured brushes could make them run better in their stock form.  The stock commutator is one of the typical skinny jobs you see in a lot of Chinese motors, but the Hawk brushes are the standard width and height "36D" type (but shortened)...and the motors "may" have some slightly odd behavior.  Nothing that makes you slap your head from what I remember.  When you go to a larger diameter com, then things start to get interesting as the little guy behaves more predictably.  From what I've seen (and I only recently started to experiment a little with these again), a #28 wind on a .350" stack seems pretty ideal.  With the "matrix" type neos in the newer Hawk, you could probably up that to a #27 wind and watch ratios to keep things cooler.  

 

Generally people don't do much experimenting with the Hawk because, like most other motors today, it needs to conform to whatever class rules dictate.  However, there's a LOT there in the little motor and I think it's pretty freaking great that JK brought them to market.  Seems to me that the little ProSlot motor is very close to the Hawk as a package, so props to them as well.  I personally prefer the ceramic magnet version of these things and, if there were such a thing as a "semi-open" class where the racers could stuff about anything in a motor and have at it, the Hawk would be the ideal way to limit cost (spec stock can, end bell and magnets) and let the tweakers go nuts.  Even so, the Hawk is the exact opposite of the modern "D" motor, small/efficient/lightweight...in other words, it actually makes sense  You could jam it in anything from a small F1 car to a 1/24 wing car and have a boatload of fun once you got everything dialed in.

 

 

What kind of epoxy should be used for the bushing to plastic?
Mark

 

 

What Phil said.  You just need to be really careful not to get whatever you use anywhere near where the shaft will be of course!  Since none of the modern plastics used to make end bells will bond well with either CA glue or epoxy, it can help to put some grooves or scratches inside the end bell where the bushing will sit.  That way, you get some "tooth" for the glue to bond to as it fills in the tiny gaps.  With an "oilite" type bushing (as opposed to a solid one...if used), very light bodied adhesives can make their way into the pores of the material easily, probably not a great thing.

 

-john

[Samiam]

Thanks Martin

Sorry in advance if this has been beatin' to death already.

 

The $10,000 question.....Why are we NOT using this motor in retro racing? It has the proper(legal) wind. Has anyone submitted the HAWK to the IRRA or SCRRA for approval?

 

I'm sure people would have no problem spending a few more bucks to get a motor that can be rebuilt.Even if you don't have it resealed it can still be used as a project motor to experiment with,like John is doing.

 

New thread?

[SlotStox#53]

John, just out of curiousity why do you prefer the ceramic magnet equipped hawk 6?

Is it that you're used to messing with ceramic ones & can dial in a specific wind to their characteristics,with all your building of the regular motors?

Have you rewound/messed with the proslot mini can motors yet ?

Pretty close to building some cars at long last ,plus can finally start to look at rewinding too finally!!

Will definitely look at doing a hawk 6 and the proslot one. Look forward to seeing your continued experiments with these mini can motors !!!

[havlicek]

Hi Paul,

 

     I like the ceramic mag versions better because:

1) Ceramic magnets are generally more heat tolerant than neos.  While the "matrix" type neos (as opposed to the solid neos, which are almost "too strong" for a lot of applications) are a pretty big step up in power, the ceramic ones in the Hawk are plenty strong enough to make some really fun motors.

 

2) If you DO like screwing-around with motors, you have to be a little careful with the matrix neos.  They chip rather easily and cleaning them up with lacquer thinner or acetone can result in a real goopy mess because it dissolves the resin binder.

 

3) Should it ever become necessary, a regular zapper such as Rick's "Mag Blaster" or similar can bring the ceramics back up to full strength.

 

 

Have you rewound/messed with the proslot mini can motors yet ?

 

 

Only a little.  I may have used some of the parts or wound some...I don't recall.  They seemed to be "pretty close" package-wise to the Hawks, but others would have to detail the differences.  I seem to remember something different with the can bushing between them, like one was flanged and one not or something.  Maybe one used a different bushing material, not sure.

 

 

Pretty close to building some cars at long last ,plus can finally start to look at rewinding too finally!!

 

 

Excellent!  Start off with some #30 winds so you can solder the coms. 

 

-john

[SlotStox#53]

Really handy info on the matrix neos, could save a lot of issues later on ! Ceramic magnets it is for starting off, may actually try a hawk first and leave the two 26Ds till after .

#30 winds it is I take it heavier and they really need to be welded ? Got a few ideas I want to try like maybe messing around with the scale motors like NSR etc and put the hawk or proslot endbells on etc.

Again thanks for the advice on all things slot motor wise

[havlicek]

Hi Paul,

 

 

Really handy info on the matrix neos, could save a lot of issues later on ! Ceramic magnets it is for starting off, may actually try a hawk first and leave the two 26Ds till after .

 

 

Occasionally I like to repeat my disclaimer:  I share what I do and think about all this stuff, but that shouldn't be taken as "authoritative" in any fashion.  I've stumbled-through the learning curve mostly by doing/failing and then trying again.  In the same way as I generally don't put much faith in the stuff the experts have told me (they're wrong more often than not), people shouldn't put much faith in what I say...other than as a general/vague guide.

 

Having said all that modern ceramic magnets are surprisingly good...orders of magnitude better than the vintage ones used in Mabuchis, and they have improved somewhat still over the better magnets used later on.  Some surprisingly small/thin/light modern ceramics are just as strong or stronger than the best magnets of the "golden age".  Add to that the fact that they can be brought back with fairly inexpensive zappers PLUS their inherent heat tolerance and they just work really well for a lot of applications (not all of course).  Another cheap modern motor that has some of the advantages of the Hawk is the RX42 by SCX...for somewhere around $10 or less.

 

 Package-wise, it's roughly a Mabuchi 13UO updated, and if my memory serves me well, those magnets (which are good and strong, but very thin ceramics) can be retrofitted into the 13UO (which has the dubious distinction of having possibly the weakest magnets ever put into a DC motor )  The RX42b has a weird end bell and the brushes and springs are unique to the motor, but it still makes for a cool package to experiment with.

 

 

#30 winds it is   I take it heavier and they really need to be welded ? Got a few ideas I want to try like maybe messing around with the scale motors like NSR etc and put the hawk or proslot endbells on etc.

 

 

Yeppers...when you start getting below #30 wire, you "may" (depending on the motor, the stack length, timing and wind) have problems with the arm throwing wires at the com.  A #30 wind is nothing to sneeze at though...65T (or so) of #30 wire done right and balanced in a tight setup can make a fun and fast motor.  I understand (completely!) the urge to want to do a missle, but having motors blow up can be disheartening.  Running a motor YOU wound and seeing it perform well is a huge kick all by itself.  

 

*Be sure to prep the wire AND the com tabs well before soldering:

1) strip all the insulation off the wire where it passes over the com tab it is to be soldered to.  Don't assume that soldering will "burn off" the insulation as was sometimes said in the old days.  Chances are the insulation, if not completely removed will "carbonize" (these are organic compounds) and partially foul the connection.  The motor may run well enough, but it could run better with a clean connection.

 

2) clean the tabs as well.  Even on a new commutator, the metal can be contaminated and/or partially corroded or oxidized.  I use a piece of fine sandpaper or even a thin Dremel cutoff wheel "hand-held" to get into the tab (if a "hook" type) and clean it off until it's all shiny.

 

3) 60/40 solder (rosin core...NEVER acid core) can work fine, but a decent silver solder up to 5% can offer a little extra insurance.  If you must use flux, a teensy-weensy bit of "Nokorrode" or equivalent applied with a toothpick should be fine...even though it's not recommended for electrical connections.

 

The above can make a significant difference in how well the motor performs...in some cases it's more important than having perfectly beautiful looking coils.

 

good luck!, john

[Tim Neja]

Thanks Martin

Sorry in advance if this has been beatin' to death already.

 

The $10,000 question.....Why are we NOT using this motor in retro racing? It has the proper(legal) wind. Has anyone submitted the HAWK to the IRRA or SCRRA for approval?

 

I'm sure people would have no problem spending a few more bucks to get a motor that can be rebuilt.Even if you don't have it resealed it can still be used as a project motor to experiment with,like John is doing.

 

New thread?

I'm not on the SCRRA board--but I believe they won't approve this motor because it's too easy to work on!  The SEALED chinese FK motors is what they've chosen to stay with. I don't  see that changing any time soon.

FWIW
T