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#1 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:15 PM

Just saw this on FoxNews.com (Fair and Balanced). Thought there might be some interest.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

DATELINE: Fantasyville, USA

The intrepid reporter Howie Spinit has uncovered triple-secret documents indicating the imminent unveiling of a new, never before seen, Retro racing series already being compared to the recently-played Super Bowl. To be called the "Inter-Galactic Retro Championship", it will, for the first time ever, crown the "Overlord of Retro" in both Can-Am and Formula 1.

The series will debut at the soon to be held R4/7 in Columbus, OH (Earth) and continue on with the 'Palooza, Shootout, Sano, and will conclude at the Brawl. Each racer will earn points toward the "Overlord" title and, as a bonus, the winners will be awarded his or her choice of one of the moons of Jupiter.

To guarantee the success of the series the organizers have chosen venues that have proven success in hosting successful premiere races in the past with a track record of quality competition. It has also been discovered that negotiations with The World Domination League as a title sponsor have broken off because of a disagreement over the what is best for the overall program.

Using a private FaceBook chat room, the help of several top level Retro racers has been enlisted to ensure the best possible format for the events. Every aspect has been looked at and honed to perfection.

Popular opinion indicates that this series will be a huge success considering the titles and prizes being awarded. And, obviously, who can resist a "mine's bigger than yours" contest on a cosmic scale?


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#2 Noose

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:48 PM

Man, the snow has really gotten to you (in a very humorous way I might say!). 

That's really funny.

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#3 Cheater

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:52 PM

Gets my vote for post of the year!

Gregory Wells

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#4 John Streisguth

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:53 PM

Leave it to Fox News to keep a controversial subject going...   :laugh2:


"Whatever..."

#5 Duffy

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:29 PM

 Each racer will earn points toward the "Overlord" title and, as a bonus, the winners will be awarded his or her choice of one of the moons of Jupiter.

 

It's taking all my dwindling commonsense to keep from posting a response referencing the seventh planet.


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#6 TSR

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:53 PM

Leave it to Fox News to keep a controversial subject going...

 
You are missing the point. Put on Megyn Kelly, stick on "mute" and simply watch.

She's the "fox" in Fox News.   :heart: :heart: :heart:
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#7 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 03:14 PM

OMG! LLC Larry body-snatched Mike McMasters. Tell me it isn't so.

 

Give use our Mike back!


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#8 Bernie

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 03:54 PM

I like it, Mike! :sarcastic_hand:
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#9 MSwiss

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 04:02 PM

We'll have to tighten up our rules.

"Hey wait a second. In between heats, the Alien ate my controller".
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#10 Pappy

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 05:10 PM

:laugh2:


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#11 NSwanberg

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:53 AM

Faux News. :sarcastic_hand:



#12 Samiam

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 07:59 AM

Not faux but real:

LINK
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#13 Steve Deiters

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 08:56 AM

This could be a slot car race where a single alien with eight sets of arms could be racing against himself in the A Main and occupy all three of the podiums at the end of the race.
 
As Jan Limpach would probably say, "Thanks for coming... X 8".
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#14 TSR

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:18 PM

It is also interesting to note that the "championship" poster shows names of racers who have absolutely no intention in participating in any of these races, as well as showing unauthorized trademarks use.

False advertising, deceptive sales practices... what else is new.

#15 gfox

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:26 PM

Which are the unauthorized trademarks?
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#16 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:26 PM

The poster your looking at is for something different. It was made for the All Star Invitational race. The names on the poster are the drivers who are invited as an All Star driver.

#17 Cheater

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:29 PM

Do you believe that simply issuing an invitation automatically grants permission for the use of a person's name in promotional material?

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#18 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:38 PM

Are you asking that question to me, Greg?



#19 gfox

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:40 PM

No; question directed at TSR.
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#20 Cheater

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:44 PM

Yes, Ralph, my question in post #17 is directed at you.

Do you really believe that to be the case? Based on your post #16, it would seem so.

Gregory Wells

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#21 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 01:04 PM

My post does not imply that in any manner. I'm familiar with digital media law. I was simply clearing up that the poster that was shared has nothing to do with the races/series being discussed and joked about.
 
I understand the original post was intended to be a "joke", but all it did was bring more light to series/races being held by the LLC. I think time would have been better spent making a creative post regarding the R4 or it's warm up race which are both approaching rapidly
 
Perhaps their promotional posts such as the one being joked about is one of the reasons they are the largest Retro series in the Ohio are now?
 
Also FWIW Greg, racer's names and pictures have been used for promotional posters and races like the Checkpoint Cup, R4, RetroPalooza, and Sano for years now.
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#22 TSR

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 01:22 PM

Which are the unauthorized trademarks?

 

AMF

 

The poster your looking at is for something different. It was made for the All Star Invitational race. The names on the poster are the drivers who are invited as an All Star driver.

 

If there was any money in slot car racing, the 'names' could sue for unauthorized use of their identity to promote an event. This would easily take place in sports where money is flowing. Here it is unethical at best, dishonest mostly.

 

In other slot car events where names were written on posters that I recall, the racers did not mind because they were active in that series and likely to show up, and if anything encouraging that racing series.

 

I do not wish to decide who is right and who is wrong in this strange situation with two "IRRA" entities, that is for a judge and/or jury to decide. I am talking ethics here and nothing else.


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#23 stemmy

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 04:47 PM

I highly doubt even a quarter of those named on the poster would show up and I don't think any of them were contacted to be invited to it.


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#24 MG Brown

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 09:38 PM

AMF


As far as I know, the "AMF" company that had an American Raceways division no longer exists - and the spun-off portion of the company still operating today is currently in Chapter 11 and uses different logos in the USA.

AMF_Bowling_Centers_US_logo.jpg

As near as I can tell, the trademark of the (triangle) logo in question is expired.

In real-world terms... "AMF Bowling Co./Bowlmor" have bigger issues to face with their creditors than to worry about a use for no financial gain of intellectual property that they MAY have some past association with.

(Research with the help of Terri Brown who is currently employed by Harley-Davidson Finance, a former part of American Machine and Foundry)


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#25 TSR

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:42 PM

As far as I know, the "AMF" company that had an American Raceways division no longer exists-

 

Mick,

 

AMF never had an "American Raceway" division, but the opposite: AMF PURCHASED a license from the American Model Car Racing Congress in 1966 to build and operate tracks worldwide except in the USA, Canada, and Mexico that AMCRC kept for themselves.

 

AMF as it stands today is still alive even if it has changed hands, and while their logo has changed several times over the years, it is still an operating corporation with valid trademark and trademark rights. Chapter 11 means "reorganization", not liquidation... :)

 

AMF still has substantial assets. http://en.wikipedia....ine_and_Foundry

 

So using their name and entity, regardless of the logo used, is a violation of trademark and could lead to severe legal penalties, except that the entity using the name for advertising purposes has no real assets, so it is unlikely that they would be pursued.

 

What I am however saying is that it is unethical to use names, like those of racers absolutely not involved or interested in that racing event, invited or not, as well as using someone else trademarks, to attract flies.



#26 MG Brown

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:09 PM

Not wanting to argue; but I would be interested in seeing some documentation that shows the AMF triangle logo is still a valid registered trademark.

 

A cursory examination of trademark research sites does not find it currently active for any company. The "AMF 300" logo (different from the triangle logo) is currently licensed to 900 Global who makes bowling balls and shoes.


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#27 Rusty Pinion

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:28 PM

(shaking head)... Damn... here we go again...


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#28 Rick

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:37 PM

Maybe both sides can stop the sniping and get back to Retro racing? This chit gets old real quick!...


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#29 Dan Ebert

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:12 AM

I agree with Rick, the bashing from both IRRA camps is out of hand. I will go and race where and when I like. I don't need the chest-pounding from either group to make a decision for me. 

Just move on, make your group the best it can be and don't worry about what the other camp is doing.
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#30 Cheater

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:20 AM

Amazing to me how so many practice blaming the victims...


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#31 Steve Deiters

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:46 AM

Cheater,

 

What started out as a funny, fictional parody seems to be morphing into something else. Maybe it is time to lock this up.


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#32 Rick

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:42 AM

I think the idea of a National Series is outstanding, using the IRRA™ Majors. I wanted to do this fifteen years ago with the bucks races (Blowout, Barn Burner, Shootout, etc.) in Wings and the Nats being used as the last race in the series.
 
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#33 MG Brown

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 11:25 AM

IMHO in all segments of society, playing the victim has gotten out of hand. Next the parties involved will be asking compensation for psychological damage.
 
What happened to the stoic creed of, "Suck it up, sunshine"?

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#34 Cheater

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 11:44 AM

Let me pose a question...

I'll be 60 this summer (sigh...) and in my nearly six decades on this planet, I can't recall a single other instance where an individual who was ousted from an organization or company proceeded to start up another organization or company with the same name in an effort to compete with the original entity.

Is there anyone who can point to another example of this sort of behavior in any field of endeavor whatsoever?

In my experience, it is a unique situation, omitting the many adjectives that could be included before the word "unique".


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#35 TSR

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 12:10 PM

Greg, you might be right on this one...

The only parallels I can think of were in auto and motorcycle racing series, but the names were never exactly the same. Example: the Indy Racing League and IndyCar; this is as close it it got there.

#36 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 12:20 PM

Maybe a good lesson to take away from the situation would be to require all BoD members to sign some form of a non-compete agreement?
 
IMHO playing the victim card is not a good look. Instead of "blame Bush" it's become "blame Ron", and at some point that has to come to an end we need to realize the consequences our actions are having on Retro and the hobby in general.
 
It's evident by this thread alone that many people, including myself are tired of the bickering and politics from all sides. It's sad to see Retro has started its slow decline yet all we do is continue to bitch and try to lay blame on others.
 
At some point the cycle needs to be broken...
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#37 Cheater

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 12:26 PM

Ralph,

Seems to me that's the second time in this thread that you've dodged a direct question...

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#38 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 12:32 PM

OK, I admit my original post was a sarcastic jab at all the "over the top" hype being spewed out about this or that race, series, or program. Doesn't matter where or who it is coming from it is a little much sometimes. Comparing ANY slot car race to the Sprint Cup All Star race... come on!! A part of me regrets starting this thread and lowering myself to the level of some who post nothing but sarcasm.

Several things drew me to Retro and have convinced me it is the best type of slot racing I have EVER been a part of. The period of 1:1 racing we focus on was some of the most exciting in racing history. When men where men and all that. Then, of course, it allows many of us to relive our younger years. Who doesn't enjoy that? But, the thing I enjoyed most about Retro was it was friendly competition. Old friends gathering together to enjoy a bit of the past. Competing, of course, but it was much more than just winning. It was more having fun doing something we always loved to do.

Being a competitive sport it was natural for some to be very serious about winning. Nothing wrong with that at all. Everyone wants to be on top. But, the fact that winning seems to be overshadowing having fun is troubling. Everything is a superlative now. The BIGGEST race, the FASTEST track, the MOST entries, the MOST prizes, the GOURMET food (wait...I thought we were slot racing?), THIS power, THAT power, BIGGEST in history, FIRST ever this or that, National Champ this, World Champ that... on and on. If this keeps up we will have a Monday Retro Champion, a Tuesday Retro Champion, etc., etc.

I host a race known as the R4. Soon it will be the seventh anniversary race. Sure, it has had the most entries of any other Retro event. But most importantly we have had great competition and a lot of fun. I firmly believe that the number of entries doesn't matter as long as those two qualities are present. So for those who want to keep score, keep counting heads, I will continue looking for smiling faces and laughter.

What started as a disagreement on a few issues has escalated into a senseless civil war. Many of you would be surprised to know which opinion I agreed with. But that no longer matters. Someone posted in this thread about how it is wrong to attack those trying to promote Retro. I guess someone needs to explain to me how you "promote" something by trying to destroy the existing system, thereby splitting the existing racers, and replacing it with an almost mirror image of the original including down to the same name. THAT was where I disagreed. All that has been accomplished is a rupture in Retro races with all groups getting less than they should be getting in entries.

Wouldn't it make more sense to try to find a way to co-exist, if not cooperate? Continuing the game of "one-upmanship" could lead to something as ridiculous as my original post. And I'm hoping the scheduling of these new races on or just before existing Premier races was just a coincidence and not a deliberate act. Such childishness would only hurt the host raceways and, most importantly, the racers who would be forced to choose or stretch their budgets to include both.

Come to the R4/7 and have a good time with good friends. And maybe make some new ones. You won't be crowned the National Champion in anything, you won't be served a steak dinner, and you won't win one of Jupiter's moons. But, we will do all we can to make sure you have a great time and fair and fun competition.

If we don't stop the creep towards "win at all cost" then I think we will all lose.
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#39 TG Racing

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 02:35 PM

Now that (post #38) is the BEST post of the year. 

 

Well said, Mike!


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#40 Matt Bruce

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 03:33 PM

It will never change. Just like some so-called National Retro Championship will never work or mean anything, win or not.
 
The reason that is, is because everyone doesn't race under one banner. Next, nobody gets titles like "The Best" cause they win a race or a series. You can call it whatever you want, doesn't make a difference. Over time is what earns those titles, and not because you win this or that, it comes from those you race against and race with.
 
Nobody nowadays will ever support a true national series, and I mean one that encompasses both coasts as well as the north, the south, and the midwest. It's too expensive and would literally turn into the last man standing to make every race. Let whomever run whatever they want to satisfy their desire to call whomever the best. In the end, there will always be another race, scheduled somewhere else, using some other format, raced on some different track, using some other rules. There are those that will never be satisfied no matter what.
 
Traveling to Retro races all these years I've seen no one run them all, or win them all, or have enough time and money to even get to them all. Hello, hear what I just said, get to them ALL. It wasn't that long ago that you didn't have any kind of organized racing to argue about. Nobody races for money, nobody is reimbursed for money spent, nobody has a contract, nobody CARES.
 
Just because you win a race, does that make you the best? If Horky loses the next five Worlds won't change the minds of 99% of scale racers out there he is the man. Same goes for Paul G, Beuf, Ron Hershman, Duran Trigillo, Greg Gilbert, Paul Pfeiffer, the late Jon Laster, Howie Ursaner, Sandy Gross, Jan Limpach, the list is endless. In the end you are judged by your peers, win, lose, or draw.
 
I have a side in this bullchit, and that is the side to see us all racing together again. I'll tell ya, you can knock the guys in Cali, but when it comes down to it, they don't keep score, they don't have the choice of tracks the rest of us have, or motors or tires or bodies but they sure have a lot of fun.
 
There is no winner in this deal, and it will all go away soon enough. It grew to this point for one reason, we all got along. Until we find a way back to that, it will stall and die. Manufacturers will lose, raceways will lose, and racers will lose. It wasn't broke, but it's broke now.
 
So to the powers that be, FIX IT.
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#41 TSR

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 04:24 PM

Same goes for Paul G, Beuf, Ron Hershman, Duran Trigillo, Greg Gilbert, Paul Phieffer, Jon Laster, Howie Ursaner, Sandy Gross, Jan Limpach,

 

... and you.  :)

 

You are also 100% correct as far as costs. NO ONE today racing slot cars can afford to travel to across the nation races... the days of Bryan Warmack, John Cukras, John Anderson and Pete Zimmerman attempting to reach Atlanta from California in an beat-up Studebaker, the days of Lee Gilbert and Yours Truly traveling to New Jersey from SoCal in a two-cylinder Honda are over. The cost of flying, rental cars, hotels, food and other basic necessities killed all that.

And... there are simply too many amateur dictators in the racing series to ever get a consensus on a semblance of a national organization, the attempt with Retro racing shows it well and the only thing holding it together is the enthusiasm of the racers themselves.


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#42 Gator Bob

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 04:49 PM

All this over a few turns of wire???   :to_take_umbrage:


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#43 Cheater

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 05:02 PM

No, Bob, it's not over a few turns of wire.
 
Like almost everything else in life, it is about power and control, and ego.
 
As always, there are givers and there are takers, builders and destroyers, and there's always a hidden, unstated agenda beneath the surface, even if some choose not to make the effort to discern it.
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#44 Gator Bob

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 05:52 PM

I was just bring it down to its most basic form... I agree with you on the power, control and ego problem.

As a bunch of 'old guys' playing with toy cars we should have a better handle on that stuff. How the heck can we get 'kids' on board if we can't act like adults and let our 'inner child' have fun. This post from Mike started out as fun... see where it went.

It seemed to have just spun out of control because some find it hard to see how destructive an unstated, hidden (or unknown) agenda can be.  
 
My agenda and position is - I don't like the fact that I (people) have been put in a position of having to 'chose sides'.


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#45 Bernie

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:16 PM

Matt, you hit right on the head! Nothing more needs to be said. :frown:


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#46 911GT3

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:56 PM

I've met some of the nicest people racing Retro.

 

My first R4 seemed more like a family reunion (although I didn't know many racers at the time). A bunch of people from all over the country coming together and talking about old times while a slot car race was going on. The atmosphere seemed to be more about having a good time and telling funny stories.

 

Even hanging out at the bank where all the cool kids go.


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#47 Mike Patterson

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:45 PM

Even hanging out at the bank where all the cool kids go.

 

That's why I pit back there. :D


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#48 Matt Bruce

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:17 PM

Yep, the first R4 was just awesome. Go back to the archives and read up on that one.

 

For those who were there, it was one of the greatest events ever for many different reasons. That was a good time for everybody.


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#49 Pappy

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 06:58 AM

My first R4 seemed more like a family reunion (although I didn't know many racers at the time). A bunch of people from all over the country coming together and talking about old times while a slot car race was going on. The atmosphere seemed to be more about having a good time and telling funny stories.


That's the thing I've noticed the most when I go to these races, the atmosphere. I don't race Retro anymore but I do like to go and see my friends. The last one I went to was so quiet it was almost eerie. It's like there's a lot of tension in the air and people are uneasy. Might just be my imagination.
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#50 John Streisguth

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 07:30 AM

PdL,

Nearly the exact same thing happened in the HO world about 20 years ago, even down to the second organization initially taking the same name as the established org. I naively got involved, and paid the price for it, which is one of the reasons I have not seriously raced HO since then.

Currently, there is an "us against them" mentality on both sides. I hope eventually the orgs will be able to coexist, but it will take effort on both sides. Unfortunately I do not see that happening in the very near future.
 
Meanwhile, I am racing with a great group of guys in Retro East. We're always having fun. When that stops, I'll be the first to quit and do something else.
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