36 replies to this topic

[Gator Bob]

So I step away for a few decades and come back feeling like Mork.

 

Once upon a time in a not that far away place:

IIRC, The motor on the left was a horizontal brush and the one on the right was vertical brush motor.

 

 

Now (from the Koford website) this is the difference between the two.

 

 

Was there a 'polar shift' while I was away on Ork?  Help... I'm lost!

 

I don't get the new terminology at all.

[Rick]

Bob, the vertical  brush has less or no shorting on the comm. The same brush just flipped 90 degrees..

[havlicek]

Yeah, what Rick said.  

Since brushes are rectangular in cross section, a 'horizontal" orientation has a wider contact strip with the commutator (so more overlap/shorting).

 A brush with a "vertical orientation" has the brush "standing on its side" so the brush has less shorting/overlap.  

In the two motors you show, the left one can't be horizontal or vertical... the brushes are round in cross section and will have the same contact area regardless of how you spin them.
 
-john

[Jairus]

Plus, the timing will change by 90 degrees.  The Pittman motors each contained an arm that was set up and wound for the brush placement of each.
But the Koford web site pic is a completely different philosophy.

[boxerdog]

Bob's motors do have important differences, however (terminology aside). The Atlas has the brushes "aligned" with  the magnetic poles, and the other (Pittman clone-Strombecker??) has the brushes at 90* to the magnetic poles. So comm placement must vary also??

[Jairus]

Plus... the Koford drawing shows the comm plates shorting out with the "horizontal" brush placement. Not to mention the difficulty of modifying the brush tubes... sheesh!

[TSR]

And a bit of dyslexia, too...

[Gator Bob]

Using the Atlas/Strombecker picture, I was referring to Horz/Vert brush location in relation to the mag field.

[TSR]

Using the Koford picture you confused everybody. 

[Gator Bob]

That's better ?

... advance one... Don't- retard the other.

zoom, zoom. LOL

 

Edited by Gator Bob, 14 February 2014 - 04:43 PM.

[TSR]

No...

[Gator Bob]

Bob, the vertical  brush has less or no shorting on the comm. The same brush just flipped 90 degrees..

[havlicek]

Using the Atlas/Strombecker picture I was referring to Horz/Vert brush location in relation to the mag field.

 
I don't think the term has been commonly used the way you describe, Bob... or at least, the common usage for the terms horizontal or vertical brushes and brush hardware refers to how the brushes are located on the endbell hardware ("lying down" or "standing on their sides").
 
-john

[TSR]

Or in this case, decompressed from a long stay at the bottom of the ocean...

[MSwiss]

I don't think the term has been commonly used the way you describe Bob...or at least, the common usage for the terms horizontal or vertical brushes and brush hardware refers to how the brushes are located on the end bell hardware ("lying down" or "standing on their sides").

I'm 98% sure "vertical" brushes is a term Stu Koford came up with.
 
He certainly was the first to commercialize the concept (in slot racing)
 
The other style was "regular" or "normal" or just "brushes".
 
As vertical brushes became more mainstream, the term "horizontal" became necessary and probably first published in a Koford catalog when we started selling both.

[Rick]

In the R/C world they call them "stand up" and "lay down" brushes...

[MSwiss]

In the R/C world they call them "stand up" and "lay down" brushes...

 

Yes.
 
I have no idea what came first.
 
I added "(in slot racing)" to my last post.
 
"He certainly was the first to commercialize the concept (in slot racing)."

[Gator Bob]

Upon further review of 1960s documentation I stand corrected.:

 

Parallel vs. Ninety Degree would be the 'proper' term used to describe the the brush locations on the Atlas vs. Srombecker shown above. 

 

Sorry, pure logic got the best of me again.

NOW .. I get it, I'm good with all that new logic.

With Mike's input I understand. Stu Koford had his motors standing up when he came up with the term "Vertical".

 

 

 

Good thing I used IIRC before making that first statement.

[don.siegel]

Well Bob, I understood it exactly the way you did, horizontal and vertical, and the Koford diagram really confused me! 

 

I'm sure some of the 60s writers must have used the terms of horizonal and vertical brushes, since it definitely rang a bell... 

 

Don 

[Gator Bob]

Don,

 

Thank you, my friend, you just confirmed I'm not crazy or we both are.

[jimht]

I believe you can blame Bob Green for the terminology, but so many people tried so many different things between 1960-1970, it's hard to tell.

Suffice to say, when we started to turn the normal 36D brush 90 degrees to its original placement we went from "horizontal" to "vertical".

 

The real question is what happens when you make the positive vertical and the negative horizontal and is there a difference the other way around? 

[MSwiss]

Suffice to say, when we started to turn the normal 36D brush 90 degrees to its original placement we went from "horizontal" to "vertical".

Jim,

Something doesn't sound quite right in the above line.

[jimht]

Hey, it's slot cars, you want a picture?  

 

__  I or I __

 

Anywaaaay, what do you mean, Mike?

 

EDIT:

How about this?

"Suffice to say, when we started to turn the 36D brush 90 degrees to its original placement we went from "horizontal" to "vertical"."

 

"Normal" was maybe the wrong adjective to use WRT a slot car part.

[MSwiss]

I think you meant to say "from" instead of "it".

 

 

"Suffice to say, when we started to turn the 36D brush 90 degrees to its original placement we went from "horizontal" to "vertical"."

 

"Suffice to say, when we started to turn the 36D brush 90 degrees from its original placement we went from "horizontal" to "vertical"."

[Gator Bob]

I understood the first time but .. |=| or |||| works.

 

\=\ bent hood symbol.

 

Bob Green looks normal.