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Bob Lindsay


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#26 Dave Crevie

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 12:31 PM

Bill Pope ended up with the diecasting molds for the motors, as he and John Hughes were going to do the casting near the end of the Lindsay run. I saw it in the early '70s.

After Bill's death, I have no idea what happened to any of the tooling at Bill's shop on St. Charles Road in Wheaton, IL. One of his kids was selling O-scale diecast flat car bodies at the Chicago O-scale meet last time I was there, but haven't had any contact with the family otherwise.




#27 don.siegel

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 03:14 PM

Thanks Nick and Dave. 

 

One thing I'm not too clear on, but maybe because I'm not too familiar with trains: if Bob sold his "train line" to Kemtron, but it didn't include the locomotives or motors, what exactly did it include? 

 

Don 



#28 PD4103

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 04:05 PM

Hi Don,

 

I think Kemtron was only interested in the brass parts, such as the side frames and detail accessories, which was their main product line. Hobbytown already had EMD & ALCO side frames for their kits which were die cast, not brass, and designed to fit their gearboxes using a bolster, just like Lindsay used. Although they could be interchangeable, hobbytown's side frames were/are very detailed. The tooling was still brand new, so no need to take on the Lindsay brass ones.

 

Lindsay had no less than 6 very highly detailed diesel side frames, and quite a bit of brass detail parts for both steam and diesel. These were invaluable to Kemtron as eliminating the competition was a plus. 

 

()Keep in mind HO was still the new kid at this time. Lionel/O scale was slowly fading, but was still the king. They even saw the writing on the wall and tried to buy Varney at this time in an effort to get into the HO market, but instead settled on Hobbyline.)

 

Kemtron retained use of the detail molds for the PA, FA & FB and under an agreement with hobbytown and were allowed to market these detail parts to others. These parts included steps, number boards, headlight grills, air horns, vents, and a few other parts that were specifically designed for the Lindsay ALCO shells, but could be used with Walthers, Athearn, Hobbyline, Varney and a host of other's plastic & die cast shells as well. 

 

Lindsay also had a decent amount of detail parts for their steam locos, as well as their Stubby, SW and FM diesel switchers. 

 

So as I see it Kemtron added between 30 & 50 items to their catalog, and recouped some of their money selling off the items, such as the die cast tooling, to include the diesel shells hobbytown didn't already own, and the steam parts.

 

Years later Bowser would follow this trend by buying up all the available HO kit and parts manufacturers such as Cary, Penn-Line, some Varney, Stewart, Cal-Scale, and so on, in an "unintentional" (?) effort to monopolize the market, and keep these lines alive. 

 

So to try and answer why Kemtron didn't want the motors, I assume they didn't really want to get into the train business, they just wanted to be the biggest cast brass parts people, and they succeeded. I guess it's better to do one thing great rather than do everything good.

 

I hope some of this was helpful.

 

Nick


Nick DeBenedetto
 

#29 Dave Crevie

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 02:10 PM

Kemtron didn't need the motors as they already had their own line of padlock-style motors for their brass steam locomotive kits. Levon Kemalyan didn't see the need for two competing lines of motors.

 

As far as I know, Lou English didn't show any interest, either. Bill Pope may have considered bringing the Lindsay line back, but never did.  



#30 don.siegel

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 03:00 PM

Dave, 

 

Do you know when they started offering their padlock motors for trains? 

 

I've got a 1957 Master Catalog, and there's only one page with motors, and only four motors: two power trucks, with very Lindsay-looking motors, a Romford Phantom, an English motor popular with rail racers, and an industrial type Micro Motor... I seem to remember that Kemtron also offered other motors not under their own brand, including one by Pittman (have one of these in a Kemtron package in fact)...  I can scan the page if you don't have this catalog. 

 

With their newsletter/catalog in 1963 they're already offering the X503 padlock motor, but they talk a lot more about their frames... the Kemtron motors were all made in Japan, and I wonder about the chassis, even if they did their own brass stamping... 

 

Don 



#31 Dave Crevie

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 11:52 AM

Not sure exactly when Kemtron started using their own (KTM) padlock motors. They were indeed made in Japan. I would guess

about 1960. The Kemtron kit frames were lost wax cast. I think the HO RTRs were actually Earnie Ball. But I was out of HO by then.



#32 TSR

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 06:50 PM

Dave,

 

The KTM motors, made in Japan by "Kyodo Light," were model train motors and while first used in slot cars from about 1962, are older, likely 1957 or 1958.

 

They were first imported in the USA by Polk's, and are slightly different from the ones purchased by Kemtron, while retaining the same basic features. Most parts are not interchangeable between KTM and Kemtron motors.



#33 Dave Crevie

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 01:24 PM

Doc;

 

KTM motors came with both O-scale Kemtron Shay kits I bought back then, and the Wabash Mogul kit that I had purchased already

built. The motors in the Shays are a bit smaller than the one in the Mogul. All I can say is that Kemtron probably bought different

motors for different applications. I have KTM motors with both cylindrical and button brushes.  



#34 don.siegel

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:21 PM

What difference between cylindrical and button brushes? 

 

I just compared a Kemtron and KTM and they look pretty identical to me, Philippe... didn't you once find out that KTM meant Kemtron Train Motor? Don't know if that was ever confirmed... 

 

Don 



#35 Dave Crevie

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 03:45 PM

The button brushes ran on a disc commutator. The brushes go in from the end of the brush end endbell. These motors had

plastic endbells, and I have no idea where Kemtron got them. They did not have KTM stamped anywhere.



#36 TSR

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 08:01 PM

Don,
they LOOK the same, but the various parts are not compatible with each other.
Yes, the KTM brand was used by Kemtron as "Kemtron Train Motors". What we do not know, is that if Kyodo Light, the manufacturer, established that before or after he was asked by Kemtron's boss, Levon Kemalyan, and if the letters were a pure coincidence or not.



#37 Dave Crevie

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 12:29 PM

I don't think we will ever know for sure if Kemalyan dictated that the motors be stamped KTM for Kemtron, or if the initials

actually stood for something else. The people who would know that are long gone. There was some confusion when they

started supplying motors to another company called Kriss Model Trains, and stamped KMT. Kriss did not last long, so not

many of those motors are around. I have three, two short and one long version. 

 

What is sad is that no real compilation of model railroad history was done. If you want to know all the true facts, you need

to go to many sources. An attempt was made for the O-scale segment by several magazines, but because of infighting

between them it never got done. I had a very good start with my magazine, 48/ft O-Scale News, but it never got into print

before we shut down. I have probably over a thousand pages of notes from interviews I took during that time, but as I said, 

most of those people are now gone. A good percentage of them were in their 70's and 80's when I did them, and that was

twenty years ago.







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