1441 replies to this topic

[tonyp]

Question.

If I do not use any hinges at all, can I just use duct tape to hold the pans on to the center section? Would that be considered legal if the tape runs in only one direction?

[Noose]

Only if it is any other color than orange or green and contains no pictures of monsters.

[Phil Smith]

Hi,

Phil, we went through this same discussion in the early NCC/USRA days over the meaning of the single hinge in Group 15 frames.

And everyone is right, including you.

With floppies, most people just don't build well enough to have zero fore/aft movement. With plumbers, even with TIGHT hinges, there will be some side to side and up and down movement through flex at the hinge itself, and most people cannot built tight enough to have no movement.

Even better, and I think this was my complaint, ALL chassis move around in four dimensions even if they have NO hinges. All flex, have movement, fore and aft, side to side, cross frame and, of course, through time.

Some defined it as "hinge points". But if we rigidly see it as any movement, all frames are illegal less they were reinforced, somehow, with carbon fiber to be totally rigid!

Fate

Russ,

For/aft slop in hinges used to be covered. It was something like .060". I remember reading it, but maybe it was changed, as I can't find any reference to it now.

You make a good points about flex, building skill, etc. But that sort of "nit picky" stuff isn't necessary to create a rule conflict:

IRRA rules state that hinge slop is unlimited. You could use .045" wire and 1/4" tubing to make your hinges and it would be perfectly legal: http://slotblog.net/...t...ost&p=70795

Would the resulting movement from those hinges be legal? Well, according to the hinge movement rule, no it would not. From the rule book: "Hinged Movements: Other than a drop arm, all hinged movements must be oriented in only one direction on any individual chassis."

Without even being nick picky about it, no chassis with sloppy hinges should be able to pass tech, if teched properly.

Somehow the IRRA (and I guess everyone else) finds logic in all of that, but it completely escapes me.

[MSwiss]

From Tony P:
"Question.

If I do not use any hinges at all, can I just use duct tape to hold the pans on to the center section? Would that be considered legal if the tape runs in only one direction?"

Only if it is any other color than orange or green and contains no pictures of monsters.

Tony,
I can sell you some genuine silver stuff or as we call it in Illinois,
"Wisconsin chrome".

[Hworth08]

By Lee Gilbert from OWH, this might be a useful read concerning hinge movement and flex.

http://www.slotcarta...ead.php?t=22917

[tonyp]

Mike, throw it in my next order. LOL.

[slotbaker]

.... Well, according to the hinge movement rule, no it would not. From the rule book: "Hinged Movements: Other than a drop arm, all hinged movements must be oriented in only one direction on any individual chassis."

Isn't the keyword in this line "oriented"?

A hinge movement is oriented around the center line of the pin. You can still have a sloppy, pr1ck in a shirt sleeve, fit but it is still oriented in one direction.

[Phil Smith]

By Lee Gilbert from OWH, this might be a useful read concerning hinge movement and flex.

http://www.slotcarta...ead.php?t=22917

Don,

Thanks for the link! Interesting thread. I also liked this thread: http://www.slotcarta...ead.php?t=22942

[Phil Smith]

Isn't the keyword in this line "oriented"?

A hinge movement is oriented around the center line of the pin. You can still have a sloppy, pr1ck in a shirt sleeve, fit but it is still oriented in one direction.

Well your analogy is certainly "unique" Steve.

The rule seems to be about movement orientation, not the hinge orientation. Hinge orientation doesn't actually seem to be covered. I guess as long as the movement is in one direction, you can have hinges in multiple directions.

Actually, I have no idea what the rule means. You may be right.

[MSwiss]

Mike, throw it in my next order. LOL.

I'll get around to it ASAP.

I've been busy on a website that discusses restaurant menus trying to get an explantion how there can be patty melts on a menu when the patty is not only unmelted but also IMO very intact. Just as they explained it so I could understand it, I came across "Jumbo Shrimp".

[Ron Hershman]

What did they explain when you asked about the fish and "chips"????

[idare2bdul]

I don't understand why you even worry about how a hinge is oriented. Aren't you guys running American hinges?

[Pappy]

I just figured out that all my cars are illegal. All my hinges go in two directions, they go up and they go down.

[Bill from NH]

I came across "Jumbo Shrimp".

That's easy, it's a 400 lb. midget! Is that cool or hot or what?

[Noose]

Yeah... but you have to eat everything with plastic silverware.

[The Number of]

All my hinges go in two directions, they go up and they go down.

At least yours work, mine are solid, is it still a hinge if it doesn't work?

[Hworth08]

I just figured out that all my cars are illegal. All my hinges go in two directions, they go up and they go down.

See Pappy,

If you read Lee Gilbert's post, you would find all the movement should be up!

Both up and down is intended for the night before a race... to settle the driver?

Seems this thread is drifting a bit.

[Noose]

Seems this thread is drifting a bit.

Nope, it's still hinged on hinges.

[Cheater]

Almost right... unhinged on hinges, I'd say.

[Cheater]

Mark,

Refer to "General Specifications" in the IRRA rules:

"k. Bushings/Bearings: Oilite/bronze bushings or ball bearings may be used in the front and/or the rear."

[Indiana Outlaw]

Question?

At what point on the chassis does the .050" clearance end? Gear side of axle bracket or motor side of axle bracket?

[Indiana Outlaw]

Faggetaboudit--

[Windyracer]

I have to disagree with post #18 in the IRRA Rule question and answers thread which states that Malcom Lovelace's innovative F1 chassis design is outlawed ongoing.

The chassis is in complete compliance with the IRRA rules as they are written in Formula 1 General Spefications k. The brass suspension arms on the car are .050" above the tech block at all points. They do not have any non-suspension parts (i.e. chassis pans hinges) attached to them.

Could one of the powers that be please explain to me and others exactly why you feel that this chassis design is Illegal.

Thanks,

[Ron Hershman]

If you read a bit deeper you will find this rule/statement... The way the rules are, the "suspension" can be either attached to the axle or to the nose piece, not both. If the "A-arms" were attached to the axle and not to the nosepiece than they would have been legal except perhaps for an interpretation of whether they were representations of suspension, but since they are attached to both parts and are obviously intended as extra support rather than for scale realism, they are not allowed.

Also take note, Malcolm has been informed of this and has agreed to make the necessary changes to make his chassis/cars legal for future events.