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Why did slot car racing fade so quickly in 1967-68?


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#526 Michael Jr.

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 09:41 AM

 

Do you meet with the pack leaders of each small group to work out "equitable" acceptable for that group's formal racers? Say such-and-such bodies, chasses and motors?

 

:unsure:

The races are all based on the house rules.... everyone with the same rules.

I simply promote relations within the larger group. It's a principle I learned doing some church work. People are going to gravitate to them anyway so I am simply accepting that and planning races to accommodate the schedules so that they can race together. But they don't become their own speedway with different rules.


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#527 NSwanberg

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 10:58 AM

Racers do what racers do and that is to continuously raise the bar. Keeping it all even is almost an impossibility in our world. Best of luck to you!


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#528 nomad2race

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 11:25 AM

Michael Cannon brings up a critical point:

 

In a raceway, it is not enough to give good customer "service"   ie; "the customer is always right" approach.

 

As a raceway matures track owners must master customer "management".  Otherwise your "best" customers, those enthusiastic frequent racers can be come your "worst" customers.

 

Over time raceways usually develop a competitive core group that can discourage and intimidate newcomers. It is the newcomers who do most of the purchasing that keep the doors open.

 

Experienced racers also develop outside sources and sometimes even their own product lines, actually competing with the Raceway.

 

The most competitive are sometimes not helpful to beginners, sometimes even openly disdainful of them.

 

Personalities can be toxic  just as there are sore losers there are winners who flaunt domination.

 

I believe this phenomenon is at the core of the pattern of raceways opening strong and fading to insolvency late in their second year.  Parma produced a booklet of advice given to new raceway owners and prospective owners with advice intended to address the problem, and reduce their many experiences with raceway bankruptcies.  Their advice was "never sign a lease longer than 2 years. If you can still pay the rent at 18 months, start looking for your new location to move to.  Your new location should be far enough away from your previous one that your existing customer do not follow you there.  It is important to to start with at new customer base." (Quoting from memory) 

 

I think this advice assumes that the issues listed above are nearly inevitable and the once the inmates have taken over the asylum, the business is doomed. 

 

Having raced in over 50 difference raceways since 1964 I have certainly seen this play out in most of them. So, I am certain that this was a factor in the decline that is the subject of this thread.

 

A few astute raceway owners have addressed this well with beginner series, teaching, support, comradery, family times and by enlisting select hard core racers to mentor newcomers. Some have the good fortune to have racers who do this naturally. I was able to do this for 13 years at Nomad Slot Racing before other factors caused us to focus on producing outside events.


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#529 Vay Jonynas

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Posted 08 October 2020 - 01:46 PM

Their advice was "never sign a lease longer than 2 years. If you can still pay the rent at 18 months, start looking for your new location to move to.  

 

 

 

Do you really mean "can" instead of "can't"?

 

 

Your new location should be far enough away from your previous one that your existing customer do not follow you there.  It is important to to start with at new customer base." 

 

 

That's strange. I thought the idea would be not to move so far that you lose your existing customer base but just far enough that different casual drive-by or walk-by traffic and thus potential new cusomers are exposed to your track.

 

:unsure:


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#530 jimht

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 02:52 PM

Location: the right location is where you always have enough casual traffic with RTR sales, rentals and parties that you don't have to rely on weekly organized racing as the primary revenue source.

 

Leases: should be renegotiated downward after one year, ;-), not run longer than one year with options for renewal and not based on the normal landlord's assumption that revenues constantly increase.

 

Moving: slot car track sections should be made with wheels attached. LOL If moving is necessary because of lack/loss of business, the culprit is that the customer base was too small to begin with.

 

Large spaces in Malls at reasonable prices are readily available nowadays, but, the lease will probably have a "we've got another tenant, pay more to stay or you're out of here" clause.


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#531 Paul Lindewall

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 03:22 PM

I've got new racers coming every week still. That's one point.  It's early so I can't tell you how many stay with it but they are coming in and buying a car and racing.

 

To a person they all talk about how affordable this hobby is. They buy a RTR car and a Koford controller under $140

 

Most have already gravitated to a small group of racers and each small group has a pack leader that is herding his little racing group. I am promoting that approach tbh.

 

So I don't think commercial slot car racing is doomed nor do I think it is so expensive that people find it to high a mountain to climb. 

 

I really have to get down there now that work on my track is completed. How's the turnout in the Hardbody class? I remember way back when when Monogram and AMT made model car kits that you could build as a detailed static model, or use the body on a slot car chassis. It was a lot of fun hanging the tail end out on those.


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#532 Vay Jonynas

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Posted 02 February 2022 - 08:18 PM

 

I remember way back when when Monogram and AMT made model car kits that you could build as a detailed static model, or use the body on a slot car chassis. 

 

Do you mean back in the 1960's or more recently?


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#533 Vay Jonynas

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Posted 21 February 2022 - 12:24 PM

Philippe summarizes some of the reasons why interest in slot car racing fell off a cliff in 1968 on page 30 of his excellent recently published Slot Car Dreams book.  The reasons he gives are those that have been cited by many posters in this very thread. It makes me think that Philippe may have actually been reading this thread!

 

:laugh2:


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#534 Vay Jonynas

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Posted 02 September 2024 - 10:33 PM

Michael Cannon brings up a critical point:

 

In a raceway, it is not enough to give good customer "service"   ie; "the customer is always right" approach.

 

As a raceway matures track owners must master customer "management".  Otherwise your "best" customers, those enthusiastic frequent racers can be come your "worst" customers.

 

Over time raceways usually develop a competitive core group that can discourage and intimidate newcomers. It is the newcomers who do most of the purchasing that keep the doors open.

 

Experienced racers also develop outside sources and sometimes even their own product lines, actually competing with the Raceway.

 

The most competitive are sometimes not helpful to beginners, sometimes even openly disdainful of them.

 

Personalities can be toxic  just as there are sore losers there are winners who flaunt domination.

 

I believe this phenomenon is at the core of the pattern of raceways opening strong and fading to insolvency late in their second year.  Parma produced a booklet of advice given to new raceway owners and prospective owners with advice intended to address the problem, and reduce their many experiences with raceway bankruptcies.  Their advice was "never sign a lease longer than 2 years. If you can still pay the rent at 18 months, start looking for your new location to move to.  Your new location should be far enough away from your previous one that your existing customer do not follow you there.  It is important to to start with at new customer base." (Quoting from memory) 

 

I think this advice assumes that the issues listed above are nearly inevitable and the once the inmates have taken over the asylum, the business is doomed. 

 

Having raced in over 50 difference raceways since 1964 I have certainly seen this play out in most of them. So, I am certain that this was a factor in the decline that is the subject of this thread.

 

A few astute raceway owners have addressed this well with beginner series, teaching, support, comradery, family times and by enlisting select hard core racers to mentor newcomers. Some have the good fortune to have racers who do this naturally. I was able to do this for 13 years at Nomad Slot Racing before other factors caused us to focus on producing outside events.

 

The more I think about what you've said, the more I'm inclined to agree. It's absolutely, positively newbies who spend the most money on new cars, controllers, track time and even home sets/track. So it's essential for a raceway to keep attracting new entrants to the hobby many of whom will naturally be kids.

 

Moreover the speed at which sophisticated racers run their wing cars is often(usually?) intimidating to newbies. These speeds can make the casual observer think "I could never do that" instead of "Hey! I'd like to try that!" Therefore a raceway owner should have a race program for cars that attract the buying interest of newcomers to slot car racing even if these happen to be no more elaborate than box stock Scalextric or Carrera cars.

 

:(


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#535 pn6

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Posted 03 September 2024 - 11:24 AM

Van as a 12 year old around ‘66 I was intrigued by the fact that I could drive a Ford GT around a track and race other kids their Lotuses and Chaparral’s. Most of us “racers” then were kids having fun. Yes the competition was there somewhat but scale motor racing was the big part.
As with everything technology changes things. Driving some homemade or even store bought brass chassis with a motor and weird body at the speed of light did not appeal to the average joe. New blood that could play cheaply with an identifiable car was where the money was.
This proved itself again when later on I worked at a hobby shop leaning towards radio control race cars. On road cars were replicas of real race cars. Off road had dune buggies and trucks patterned after the real thing. Back then we had an outside dirt track which used up a lot of square footage. The new racers had a blast and spent money for their cars and more importantly their kids cars. We had open track whenever we weren’t racing which was only two nights and Saturdays. One of our nights was dedicated to the new guys with kits off the shelf. It was a big success. Yes the serious night brought the racers too but they didn’t spend as much money as the new guys. Simple racing was the money maker but the biggest spenders were the backyard players. I remember a group of guys that would sneak in to get a hotter motor of better tires or whatever just so they could whip their buddies. Those guys spent Money!!
Slot cars limits of having the need for a commercial track was a big problem. This is why HO and 1/32 scale survived. They could be run on home tracks easily purchased and played with whenever we wanted.
I recently went to a business model which has successfully integrated our beloved hobby into a going affair. They are a big distributor for slot cars with a track in the “lobby”. The cars? All replicas of real race cars in 1/32 scale. Their races are broadcast on YouTube. They have a retail counter and friendly staff. The key here is product that is identifiable and can be enjoyed at home as well as in fierce competition at the track. It works.
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#536 Bill Seitz

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Posted 03 September 2024 - 08:23 PM

We all have a different perspective. If I hadn't discovered wing cars - real miniature racing cars - I'd have quit slot cars long ago. Yes, when I was a teen in the 60's racing a model of my favorite 1:1 race car was appealing, but that lost appeal as I became an adult. I now find these "scale" (actually only "scale appearing") slot cars boring. I want to play with maximum performance miniature race cars.

 

Many kids in the 60's had their own sources of spending money. Their parents generally didn't care if they biked or walked across town without adult supervision as long as they were home for dinner. Today, it's very unlikely parents will allow the child to go so much as the next block away without adult supervision. It's a very small segment of today's population that even has a raceway in the same city let alone somewhere close enough that a kid might go on their own. Today, most of the kids I'm familiar with are completely dependent on parents/adults for both money to spend on a hobby and vital transportation for something like slot cars. Catering to kids almost always fails - the hobby needs to cater to the parents of kids. Most of the slot car enthusiast kids I know have a slot car enthusiast parent (from the 90's boom cycle) or grandparent. Parents not interested, kids not either.

 

Another factor I see is that slot cars appear very low-tech, especially compared to radio-control models and digital-controlled model trains. I believe if the raceset makers hadn't gone "digital" slot car sets would be dead now, only a past memory for the older of us. I'm familiar with slot car raceways which are or have been located in shopping malls. The kids come by and look at me zipping around the track, and the impression is any moron can do that, the cars are stuck to the track. They move on looking for a more challenging experience. There are plenty of them, too, at least ones that seem to be a lot more challenging. A few will give it a try, though, and quickly discover there's a lot more challenge than meets the eye. To go zipping around like they've seen me do takes some skill. Unfortunately, the challenge wanes quickly, and when the kids can't master in less than 15 minutes, they give up - too hard. That video game on their smartphone is a lot easier - costs less, too. Parents probably gave them the phone and all of the entertainment apps on it, so they can play free almost forever. When they wear it out, or the tech and sparkle advances every 6 months or so, parents will provide them a new one. Then for some parents, $20 for 15 minutes of entertainment seems too expensive. Yes, the theme park costs a lot more, but it's an all-day adventure that totally wears the kids out, and the parents can be entertained, too.

 

The cars that run on racesets are not compatible with most raceway slot cars, and the track conditions that work for the "set" cars are wrong for "raceway" cars. This produces a constant conflict. Generally the raceway has to have separate facilities for them or specialize in one over the other. Some areas do well with either over the other, and I believe this is due to factors beside the actual slot cars. Enthusiasts interested in "scale" always believe it's the only way for the hobby to survive and grow, and I'm rather sure those on the wing car side would feel equally strong about theirs. We've stuck around the hobby because the subset that interests us continues to be. I'm not sure it would help the hobby if we could come to some mutual respect for the various factions and work together for the improvement of the hobby, but it certainly wouldn't hurt. Raceways and racesets don't help each others sales - they're nearly mutually exclusive - unless the raceway embodies what amounts to a supersize raceset. Racesets sell more racesets (maybe), not interest in the typical big-wood-track raceway. The successes are more often exceptions rather than rule.

 

I've noted the comments regarding many of the 60's participants were kids playing, not seriously competing with one another. I agree. My observations as an adult in later years is that the adult competitive sport slot racing has become has actually overtaken slot cars for fun. Competitors have become so serious about placing well and winning, that's the entire focus. The hobby seems to have turned into the successful serious few and the disgruntled rest of us. Maybe this is why club racing seems to be increasingly popular; a greater emphasis on having a fun social activity than "dog eat dog, winner take all" race.

 

I'm a player, not a racer, a retired engineer that likes to build race cars and experiment. I'll never have what it takes to win a serious race, though I may know more about what it takes than some serious winners. It's a fun learning experience, a pass-time I enjoy that keeps me active. I currently have a stable of nearly 50 cars, most wing cars of various types, some not even for any sort of competitive racing class. I spend a lot of money at raceways I travel to all over the US as well as in special orders to my "local" raceway 125 miles away. There may be serious competitors that spend as much or more than I do, but I'm also aware of a sizeable class of racers they look for every deal or way to spend less money to go faster, often to the detriment of the raceways in which their hobby/sport depends. Our hobby also seems bent on making things as difficult and complicated as possible. Tracks that look like pretzels; cars that are poorly designed for racing around a pretzel. This maybe great for limiting competitive success to a select few. Do we want our hobby limited to a select few? I read comments regularly that expound on not limiting but expanding the participant base. It's frustrating for kid and adult alike to have great difficulty mastering. Remember the 15 minute entertainment? If one spends 13 of those 15 minutes chasing the car which deslots at every corner, do you think we'll be back for more? And it's not just speed. Actually if you look at how kids react when they see speeding slot cars, you realize that speed is a great attractor. There's a need for speed - at least in some moderation. Race set manufacturers build tracks with steel rails and cars with magnets to keep them on the track. Wings keep cars on the track. In the 60's, AMRC built tracks and guide systems with "slot-lock" (T-slots) to keep cars on the track.

 

Oh well, I've rambled on long enough. I usually keep off my soapbox, but the last entries in this thread touched a chord, and I've exposed myself to add 2 cents worth. My apologies if I've offended anyone. Let's all have fun and keep slot cars alive. I'd like to get a few more years in before I get too old to build cars and travel to distant raceways. My wife says she'd join me building a model railway in the space where my home wing car track now resides, but I have this need for speed that model railway doesn't satisfy. Maybe when I get too old.


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#537 MSwiss

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Posted 03 September 2024 - 09:32 PM

$20 for 15 minutes?

 

If I charged that, I would have a casual rental once...

..or they would turn around and walk out before renting.


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#538 Dave_12

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Posted 04 September 2024 - 01:03 AM

for me as a 12 or 13 year old i could not afford it  plus the closest track was too far away. 


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