102 replies to this topic

[slotbaker]

Pretty cool!

Here is a pic of both versions of the "Series 2" Cooper-Ford at the museum:

Following the lead from SlotsNZ on another forum, and not wanting to highjack the thread too far;

Can you give us a bit of info/history on the real car that this was modelled from?

If it has been posted before, I apologise, and can you point me to the thread.

TIA.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

The real car was a, depending on who you talked to, a simple Cooper Monaco with a 289 popped in, or a special chassic with thicker tubes based on the monaco(Ihave been personally told both stories by ex cobra crew and read both versions in cobra books!). There were, depending on source, eventually 4 or 6 of these.

And a number of other players, like roger ward, modified their own monaco with small american V8s(though roger's car had "bat fins" on it).

In 63, it was driven mostly by Dave McDonald starting with Sears Point and ending the year at the "Los Angeles Grand Prix". In the last race McDonald lapped the field after the chappy 2 punked out. Second was the reworked and widened Cooper Zerex still running the Climax/Indy engine that had pushed the indy car two years before.

1964 was a year that saw lower profile wider tires become avaialable. The original tires on the car were just over 6" wide. By Riverside, shelby had 6 such cars all with modified rear body work that was "bulged" to clear wider tires. And by 65, the cars had all gone to the scrap yard or to second tier racing in other hands.

One car was done in '65, without the bulged rear fenders, but with simple sheet flares in the rear. This body was done by monogram in the second series, but still showing the blue metallic and such. In fact it was run by a team that HAD been running one of Reventlow's cars under the moniker "purple people eater" after the song. And the team's replacement Cooper/monaco/cobra with the sheet flares was also called "Purple People Eater" and painted purple with while front and flames like the previous Scarab. The last time I saw it run was at Nassau.

Fate

[slotbaker]

Rocky, thanks.

I've read a few articles about it, but this one seems to make sense; Quoted from "Shelby American Guide" Revised second edition 1982.
"A total of 8 Cooper Monacos had been purchased by Shelby American. Three of the first four were sold at the end of the 1963 season. Of the second four, one was crashed, one was built into the "Lang Cooper" by Pete Brock and three remained (one 1963 car and two 1964 cars.)
All three were offered for sale in December of 1965. Less engines and transaxles, the asking price was $3,000 each for two that were assembled and $2,500 for the one that was not"

Maybe the car with the "simple sheet flares in the rear" was one of the last 3 owned by Shelby.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

I am not sure WHICH one is the Purple People Eater. I have footage in an old "Glory Days" episode of it running.

Fate

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

And I have a set of photos of the 4 at riverside 64 with the bulged rear fenders taken by Schliecher and, as far as I know, never published. One of them has parts from a wreck and, again, I am not sure which parts belong to which #

Fate

[Allan Feldman]

Am I right in thinking thatn the RTR cars are Homeset ones? Also I might be mistaken but was not the Indy Lotus (Lotus 38) produced with a plain undecaled body in Green and Blue for the Homset RTR version?
Now Phillipe the $64000 question were the bodykits for the Ford GT and the Ferrari 330P/LM every issued as seperate items?
Regards Allan

[Vay Jonynas]

Am I right in thinking thatn the RTR cars are Homeset ones?

No. Monogram's home track sets were all 1/32 scale. These RTR cars that Monogram sold individually were all 1/24 scale:

Lola T70
Ford GT
Ferrari 330LM
Vampire
Snake
Assassin
McLaren Elva

They were thus clearly intended to be used on commercial tracks.

[bradblohm]

Hey Vay,

Not sure what you mean by that. Monogram had two 1/24 sets, the Indy set with blue and green Lotus 38s, and the Riverside set with Chaparral and Mclaren Elva. Also, they sold many 1/32 RTR cars e.g. Chaparral, Lola T70, Lotus 33, just to name a couple.

I've always been a fan of Monogram, so...

[Vay Jonynas]

Hey Vay,

Not sure what you mean by that. Monogram had two 1/24 sets, the Indy set with blue and green Lotus 38s, and the Riverside set with Chaparral and Mclaren Elva. Also, they sold many 1/32 RTR cars e.g. Chaparral, Lola T70, Lotus 33, just to name a couple.

Hmmmm. I guess my comments are only correct for the most part then....



That's why I'm eagerly waiting for Phil's new book to be published!



BTW, do you have any of the Monogram race sets?

[TSR]

There is a lot of confusion in this thread.
Brad is correct of course, there were two 1/24 scale sets as he described.

Now...

Am I right in thinking thatn the RTR cars are Homeset ones?

It all depends, since they could be used at home or at a commercial raceway where they were also sold. The "set' cars of course had different chassis from the "kit" models, but there is no such distinction for the 1/24 scale vacuum formed cars, in which at least one of them was sold in kit form, and that one is by far the rarest Monogram kit of them all, with so far only one known to have survived.

Also I might be mistaken but was not the Indy Lotus (Lotus 38) produced with a plain undecaled body in Green and Blue for the Homset RTR version?

This is incorrect. The Lotuses used in the racing set always had self-adhesive poor-quality decals that often are missing from their bodies. These Lotuses used narrower rear wheels and tires than the version sold as a kit, and were fitted with only a small portion of the plated cosmetic accessories supplied in the kits.

Now Phillipe the $64000 question were the bodykits for the Ford GT and the Ferrari 330P/LM every issued as seperate items?

No. They were sold only as full kits or fully assembled RTR models, inside small clear plastic boxes. In fact, there are more Monogram models of which the body kits were never offered separately: besides the two you mention, the 1/32 scale Lola T70, Ferrari and Lotus F1 (although these two were offered as static kits but using different parts), as well as the 1/24 scale McLaren-Elva, Lotus 38 and all the vacuum formed cars, from Vampire to McLaren-Elva.

And indeed the whole detail of this will be described in great detail, year per year, in the new book due in 2010. A listing of everything (kits and RTR) ever produced is located at the end of the book, with stock numbers.

[fox]

Philippe,

I´m afraid this forum will die down the day you release your "lifework"

Can´t wait to hold it in my hands and read it though!

[TSR]

Martin,

I believe that the opposite will be true, and that it will instead open a whole new set of questions, over much smaller details...

[Vay Jonynas]

There is a lot of confusion in this thread.

Not surprising since the marketing and engineering departments at Monogram were exclusively concerned with maximizing sales and profits. I'm sure these gentlemen never in their wildest dreams suspected that full grown adults would be discussing/dissecting their product line more than forty years later!

[Gary Bluestone]

Here is one of those small details I discovered.

The first issue stocker chassis that came with the 16D motor, used in the '34, '36, and '40 Fords, etc., had a front chassis part that screwed to the rear chassis part. This chassis was available as a component separately.

Later issues of the seven so called stockers had a chassis to mount the 36D motor and the rear part of the chassis was common to the sports cars, Ferrari, Scarab, and Porsche. The front end of the new stocker chassis was unique and never available as a separate piece or with anything else except the stocker kits.

If you look closely at the front chassis part you will see that it is in fact the old 16D chassis front end that has been re-bent (leaving telltale creases), re-machined so the holes line up with the new rear chassis, and cut off to the appropriate length. Talk about recycling. Gb

[slotbaker]

I'm interested to find out what bodies Monogram used with the SR1659 aluminium chassis.

What others besides the Snake vac formed body RTR, and McLaren Elva hard body kit?


Also, how was the McLaren body fixed to the chassis?


TIA

[Gary Bluestone]

Here is one of those small details I discovered . The first issue stocker chassis that came with the 16d motor, used in the 34,36 & 40 Fords ect , had a front chassis part that screwed to the rear chassis part. This chassis was available as a component seperately. Later issues of the 7 so called stockers had a chassis to mount the 36D motor and the rear part of the chassis was common to the sports cars, Ferrari, Scarab and Porsche. The front end of the new stocker chassis was unique and never available as a seperate piece or with anything else except the stocker kits. If you look closely at the front chassis part you will see that it is in fact the old 16D chassis front end that has been re-bent(leaving tell tale creases) re-machined so the holes line up with the new rear chassis and cut off to the appropiate length. Talk about recycling. Gb

Here are some photos to illustrate this . You can see where the front end was squeezed in to fit the new rear chassis, and in the third photo you can see the old crease. The guide flag support was known to be a weak point of these chassis due to the thinness of the brass. If you crashed and the guide got hit, it would bend down or break off. Gb

[Vay Jonynas]

The more I learn about Monogram production history the more I realize I don't know.

[Vay Jonynas]

In any event, here are a couple of pictures of the MIB Monogram, AMT, and Revell kits I've accumulated over the years:





I have them stored and displayed on the top two shelves of my model kit cabinet. Here are some pictures of the whole cabinet:

[TSR]

That's a nice accumulation...

[Vay Jonynas]

Thank you!

Here are some pictures of my quality control inspector checking out my slot cars:

[TSR]

For a tech inspector, that's a hairy proposition...

[Vay Jonynas]

The excellent detail that Philippe de Lespinay's book Slot Car Dreams provides on the changes Monogram made over time to the interior packaging of its slot car kits has prompted me to take some of the kits in my collection out from the cabinet to check out the insides. 

 

 

In so doing I noticed that my 1/32 scale Cooper-Ford which was issued in 1965 with a suggested retail price of $7.00 has two S.S. Kresge price stickers on the side marking the kit down to $4.57 and then $2.29!  ​  These days of course this Monogram Cooper-Ford could fetch about $350.00.

 

I'm guessing that it may have been in 1970 that the kit was marked down to the $2.29. Of course since the price of a troy ounce of gold averaged $35.96 in 1970, the $2.29 in 1970 would translate to a price of $120.83  at today's gold price of $1897.36. Therefore the $2.29 price in 1970 was still a deal.

 

[Vay Jonynas]

Hey Vay,

Not sure what you mean by that. Monogram had two 1/24 sets, the Indy set with blue and green Lotus 38s, and the Riverside set with Chaparral and Mclaren Elva. 

 

 

John Kit has posted an excellent video covering Monogram's slot car set production:

 

 

 

 

These sets were indeed fabulous. Here are a few stills, the first being an ad that appeared in the DC comics hitting newsstands in November 1965:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Summarizing Monogram's home slot car set releases in table form:

 

 

Fall 1965

 

1/32 Le Mans with a Ferrari 330P/LM and a Ford GT - $42.50 in early ads but $40 in the 1966 Monogram catalogue

 

 

1966

 

1/32 Watkins Glen with Ferrari and Lotus Grand Prix racers - $35

 

1/32 Road America with a Chaparral II and a Lola T-70 - $50

 

1/24 Indy Lotus with two Lotus 38 racers - $50

 

1/24 Riverside with a massive track covering 13' 5 1/2" x 5' 6 7/8", a Chaparral II and a McLaren-Elva - $75

 

1/32 Sebring with a huge four lane track covering 12' x 6' 2", a Ferrari 330P/LM, a Ford GT, a Chaparral II and a Lola T-70 - $100

 

 

And yes, those were truly expensive prices for kids' toys back in 1966 but they've ended up still being very highly regarded and prized today.

 

[TSR]

Vay,
thanks for the heads up.
Fortunately with Monogram, the 1966 catalogue that is a rather commonly found item, covers 90% of their slot car production. The last bits and pieces they produced are the only little mysteries, but even that is no mystery when you read the book.

Most difficult to find is the McLaren-Elva kit with the vacuum formed pre-painted body, kit # VSR2418, the "V" standing for "vacuum" to differentiate it from the # SR2418  kit with the injected body. The box was adorned with an sticker indicating that an extra set of AJ's silicone tires was included.





The RTR version of this model is far less rare, and is decorated with 3 self-adhesive racing roundels and racing numbers.





 

[Vay Jonynas]

Fortunately with Monogram, the 1966 catalogue that is a rather commonly found item, covers 90% of their slot car production. The last bits and pieces they produced are the only little mysteries, but even that is no mystery when you read the book.
 

 

I'm fully enjoying your book so far. I'll comment on it at more length in a week or so after I've read more of it. The only negative is that it's fired me up to add even more Monogram and other slot car kits to my collection! This of course is expensive.