13 replies to this topic

[Gary Bluestone]

Recently a fellow racer asked if the Cox wheels and tires were made to scale. I took some measurements and need more info to complete my analysis. The F1 Brm and Ferrari measure 17/32 OD at the wheel, tires are marked 700-13. The Ford GT is the same. Can't say what the size the actual 1:1 cars used. Were they all running 13" wheels? The Cox Chaparral wheel measures 5/8" , tires are marked 1400-15. These ones look right but can anyone say what the size the actual 1:1 Brm and Ferrari, Ford GT, Lotus 30/40 and Cheetah used?

[dc-65x]

When measuring wheel diameters remember that the tire size refers to the tires dimension across its tires bead. The actual wheel outside diameter is about 1 1/2" larger. So a 13" wheel would actually measure about 14 1/2" in diameter.

 

This is something Cox (and lots of other manufactures) forgot to do with their wheels.

[beardogracing]

The BRM used 13" wheels, probably rubbery Owen's,The Ferrari 13" Probably Borrani's, all the others used 15", usually Halibrand. Below are tyre charts for Dunlop Racing tyres, yes they still make them, the sizes may not be exact, but it gives you a close approximation of the size of the real tyres. Measurements are in Millimeters.

 

 

[gluebomb]

The 1/24th Ford GT and Lotus wheels always looked small to me, those on the Chaparral are dead on though. Are the Ford GT rims some kind of Hallibrand or was there a bit of speculation there ?

[Allan Feldman]

I always thought the Ford GT wheels were generatic. The full size wheels i.e. BRM; Ruby Owens; JWAE 6 spokes were not produced until 1968. Although the 1967 Mirage did use 5 spokes in 1967. There were American 6 spokes BRM type wheels used on one of the GT40 in the 1966 Le Mans. They were also used in testing on one of the MKIV and in the 1967 Le Mans test day by the GT40 P/1020 Ford France car. Early Prototypes on 6.5 x 15 and 8 x 15 Borrani wires with 5.50 x 15 & 7.25 x 15 Dunlop tyres. MKI same Borrani wires but fitted with 5.50 x 15 & 7.00 x15 Goodyear tyres. The MKII were fitted with 8 x15  9.5 x15 Halibrands with 9.75 x15 &12.80 Goodyear tyres. All MKIIs except H&M Andretti in the 1966 ran on Goodyears as Shelby was a distributor Andrettis car No6 ran on Firestones.  The 1968 Gulf GT40 MKI  were on 8.5  x 15 & 8.5 or 11 or 12 x 15 BRM. So when did the Cox Ford GT kit come out? It probably as .Phillipe says that they had the American 6 spokes on the Shelby car at the time Cox measured it. 

Regards Allan

[Gary Bluestone]

Though I don't know the exact release date for the  Cox Ford GT, the instructions mention "so far 1965" so that should suggest the date of the car . They also say originally they(Ford) used wire wheels and later mags, but that's all . The F1 cars are modeled after the 1964 cars. Still not sure what those 6 spoke mags on the Ford gt, are supposed to be, but it is beginning to look like they are underscale, being under 13" scale.

I tried searching the VSRN Cox library but couldn't get it online, anyone know why?

[Allan Feldman]

Gary I thought it might be 1965 because and I appologise for boring you all again with the same story. The Cox Ford GT was produced as the the 1964 Le Mans car. Thats why it has double headlights. When it failed in winning the Le Mans Cox made the Box but not the slotcar as the 1965 Daytona winner GT/103 Miles /Ruby. The box artwork has the car with single front lights. I thought the 6 spoke design was generatic because while the 1964 Le Mans cars ran on Borrani wire wheels. The 1965 Daytona Ford GTs cars were running on Halibrands. Unless the Ford GT that Shelby was using had 6 spokes on it that Cox used as the base of its slotcar. I cannot see why the Cox slotcar had 6 spoke wheels. Gary even in 1964, 1965 wheels were quiet narrow. Like I said and I have proof the 6 spokes American version were first used and seen at the 1966 Le Mans on one car in the actual race. It seems that they were testing them. And this was two years before British BRM type wheels were fitted to the Gulf GT40's. Maybe that they were being used on other racing cars at the time?

Regards Allan

[Gary Bluestone]

I'm not sure what you mean by double headlights, do you mean the smaller lights (illustrated in yellow on the box) below the main rectangular light. I don't know much about these cars other that what I have seen and read, but it looks like the 1964 car has no upward curve on the rear deck, where the 1965 car has an air spoiler.

[Allan Feldman]

Gary The Cox acual model Ford GT has twin lights one under the other both sides. Presumable main and fog. I do not see any yellow but I am looking at the 1/32nd version box and what I an see is twin driving lights under the front clip shown as retangles. The main lights are single.

The small block 1964-1969 MKI all had built in duck tail spoiler on their rear clip.

[Gary Bluestone]

After reading the instructions in the Cox Ford GT 40 kit again, it was their claim that the car was using Shelby magnesium wheels. After searching hundreds of images I can only say that the Cox wheels bear little resemblance to the Shelby wheels, and are too small.

[Allan Feldman]

After reading the instructions in the Cox Ford Ghundreds of images I can only say that the Cox wheels bear little resemblance to the Shelby wheels, and are too small.

T 40 kit again, it was their claim that the car was using Shelby magnesium wheels. After searching 

After reading the instructions in the Cox Ford GT 40 kit again, it was their claim that the car was using Shelby magnesium wheels. After searching hundreds of images I can only say that the Cox wheels bear little resemblance to the Shelby wheels, and are too small.

Gary, The wheels that Shelby had on both cars for their 1965 Daytona win were Magnisium Halibrands. No Ford GT in 1965 raced on 6 spokes mags. When they could get hold of them Halibrands would be the first choice otherwise it was Borrani wire wheels they used. Even GT40P/1006 the FAV (the first GT40 showing Len Bailey designed definative nose clip)entry for the 1965 Le Mans was running on Borranis. Ford GT40P/1004 the SAI/ Rob Walker entry for the 1965 Le Mans was racing on Halibrands

[TSR]

The "Shelby" wheels on the Cox Ford GT represent a wheel that was actually never used on Shelby's GT40s. It looks more like a Btirish wheel later used on the production 5-liter GT40s and called "BRM wheel", while I am pretty sure the BRM car company was not its manufacturer.
Come to think of it and if on wants to be technical, none of the Cox slot car wheels is truly accurate. But in the day and compared to what was out there, they looked pretty good.
The Ford GT used 15" diameter wheels, so they should have been the same size in the 1/24 scale as the Cox Chaparral wheels, a diameter on top of the beads of 0.625".
The Ferrari and BRM F1 used 13" wheels, so their diameter should be 0.54".
Thing is, I cannot think of a single slot car company that actally made a dead-on correct scale model of a wheel.
As long as they look cool, who cares.

 

[dc-65x]

When measuring wheel diameters remember that the tire size refers to the tires dimension across its tires bead. The actual wheel outside diameter is about 1 1/2" larger. So a 13" wheel would actually measure about 14 1/2" in diameter.

 

This is something Cox (and lots of other manufactures) forgot to do with their wheels.

 

Guys, grab a tape measure and measure the wheels on your car. You'll see that they are about 1 1/2" larger in diameter than their tire size. A 15" wheel will measure about 16 1/2" or a 1/24th scale diameter of .688".

[gluebomb]

Yes, Alan is right - I think the Jacky Ickx car ran a six spoke rim in 66 but this was a solid spoke, not a ridged and indented one like that modelled by Cox.

Interestingly though, the Cox GT wheels look a bit like this pic i found from an old auction so they're maybe not totally fictional - no idea what it was fitted to though, or if it is actually a Hallibrand.

 

I'd agree with PDL to a point but for scale hardbody stuff the right size and accuracy makes a difference I think; the Revell wheels are much closer imho, some of the Ulrichs I've seen also - too bad those are not as plentiful.