33 replies to this topic

[Mopower71]

I put this in the 1/24 but it should be here.
Anyone know what motors these came with, and what tires, and where to get replacements?

This is a Group 32 car, AJ's Winnwagon on the front. I think that is the chassis also. I'll be able to tell better with a bit of clean up.

Missing motor and and needs rear tires/wheels. It has a set of wheels/tires from a Womp. The axles are threaded, or at least the front one is.

[TSR]

They had a big, fat, endbell-side driven FT36 motor, more than likely a former Revell SP80 fire-sold to Maury Winn after Revell's slot car biz collapsed. You can see pics of the car with these motors in some 1972 issues of Car Model mag.

A 36D in a 1/32 scale car? Yep, it happened! This explains why the body is so ridiculously tall on both the McLaren and the Porsche injected bodies that fitted these chassis.

[Mopower71]

That's a big motor for a small car.
It has slots for the motor screws.
I have a motor, I think it was called a cheeta, or bansi, that fits the mount. It is a little bit wider than a 16D but smaller than a 36.
I have a few Bad pictures of it.

[TSR]

That's a Mabuchi FT26 motor, commonly called "26D", and not the correct motor for the car. Here is the correct motor:

[Mopower71]

That 26D was one fast motor when I had it in my brass tube chassis Mercury Marauder.
I wonder where the 36D ever ended up.

[TSR]

Quote

I wonder where the 36D ever ended up.

There are still THOUSANDS of brand new old stock FT36 and FT36D motors available all over the Internet...

[Mopower71]

Which would you think would be better for just playing at the commercial track, the Mabuchi FT26 or the ft 36?

[TSR]

The 26, but this car will be a bit too fast with it and will tilt at every corner unless you put a ton of lead on it...

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

Thanks for that. I have never seen the 36d version before. didn't know it even existed. I have a couple somewhere, but they came with the FT160D. Review samples, and I don't remember ever liking the way it ran. With the later Super 80, I did some good work in womp races.

Fate

[TSR]

Quote

I have never seen the 36d version before. didn't know it even existed. I have a couple somewhere, but they came with the FT160D.

These are later versions, like 1975-76. They have the "ugly" FT160D with the "gold" can and the black end bell with the "fat" bearing housing.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi
I am a little confused on your post. The only Ft160ds I saw with TwinnK sourcing had white endbells. The big housing replaced the BB with a plain steel bearing, and the arm was a medium stack 014 lams with 65/30 in blue wire.

In the period, It was often difficult to find regular races, but almost everyone had a womp program at least weekly. Weekly crash fests are great stress relievers on a Saturday. The "wisdom" of the day was that the super 80s and winnwagons were useless.

R

[Mopower71]

I found the box
Checkmarked is 160D installed.
I still can not find any more information on these on the internet.
Still looking through stuff. Haven't found the motor yet. I don't know what rear wheels it had.
I did find my Strombecker track. an old duesenburg looking car a strombecker gt40, a gto body, and the box for my Revell Corvette.
A mini cooper soft plastic body for the AJ chassis.
I might have to take a drive to dad's house to see if the rest of my boxes are still there.

[don.siegel]

I have only seen these with the later 16D size motors, including a review copy sent by EJ's after my first (and only!) column in Car Model back in 1974... I don't have that one any more, but I picked up a MIB example since then and it is marked Group 32 Winnwagen RTR with AJ's twinn-shaft 160D motor complete.

But there does look like enough room for a 36D since there's room above and the motor is not even with the bottom of the chassis, so there's extra room top and bottom.

But looking at the instruction sheet, there's a part I had forgotten about: the Winnwagen chassis comes with brackets to let it handle just about any kind of can motor, from the Mabuchi 13, 16, 26 and 36D, to all Muras, Pittman 6001, Kadar, General Electric 208 (Dynamic) and Hitachi! Only the Strombecker Hemi needs a slight mod to the main chassis and bracket...

My Winnwagen has threaded front and rear wheels, rear sponge tires, an angled orange gear and orange jet flag type guide.

Don

Can post pictures if it will help.

[Mopower71]

Don,
Post the pictures, I would like to see it.
I think I found the rear wheels, no tires on it though. I also found a brass motor bracket, and the instructions.
I havent found the other associated brackets and spacers for the motors.
The more I dig the more I find.

[Mopower71]

The instructions does say it will fit any motor.

[TSR]

The original Winnwagens (1971 McLaren M8D and and 1971 Porsche 917-20) came only as RTR with Revell FT36 motors. I am sure of it because they sent me a pair of the cars for a Miniature Auto Racing review, and I LAUGHED at the idea of putting such a fat pig of a motor in such a small car. Of course they had to make the bodies to fit so they added taller sides, like 1/4" too high! They looked pretty stupid really.

Quote

The only Ft160ds I saw with TwinnK sourcing had white endbells.

I kave as yet to see ONE FT160D with a white end bell, but I'll take your word for it...
This is the Twinn-K FT160D as fitted later in those cars:

[don.siegel]

En effet... instead of doubting Philippe, I should have been doubting my memory!

Just looked up some references in my magazine collection, and the earliest is in Car Model, October 1972. The pictures clearly show an old endbell drive (hi Bob!) 36D in the chassis, although the text, by Steve Dieters in his 1/32 column, doesn't mention this motor. Although it does make a big deal of the fact that ANY can motor will fit, it also says that AJ's Winnwagon RTRs will be equipped with AJ's Twinn-Shaft Mabuchi 16D Motors, which will also be available separately.

Maybe they just sent off some of the preview cars with this motor to show that any can motor would fit - and I agree with you Philippe that it was ridiculous to make the body so tall, just to be able to say that it would fit a 36D, or Dynamic GE, or any other large motor - when these were all totally out of date at the time!

Photos coming tomorrow.
Don

[don.siegel]

Ok, I fired up the scanner and the digital camera this morning (sunny, but cold, 6°C, clouds moving in from the West...), and here is my Winnwagen. For some reason it came out rather reddish, even tho I tried to correct the photos. It really is a very nice McLaren orange!
Don







And here's the article I mentioned, from Car Model, October 1972, in which you can clearly see the old SP600 style 36D motor. What's funny is that they took an argument from the beginning of slot racing, when a chassis that fit all motors really was a selling point, and applied it 10 years later, when nothing but 16Ds had already been used for several years! Go figure....

[TSR]

Like Rush Limbaugh, I am correct 98.8% of the time.
Thing is, the chassis was originally designed STRICTLY for the FT36 motor, and when the FT160D is being installed, it sits too high in the frame, a perfect proof that it was never designed for it.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

Wow!. I think I have about 20 of the white endbell version, most new. When I was doing the womp thing in the late 70s, there were two motors in "stock" womp; the 160d and the Johnson 222.

I so preferrred the twinnK, bought a few cards of the motor. It is about a mm thicker, the can is much heavier than the 16d.

Fate

[TSR]

Rocky,
I have never seen an FT160D with the white end bell. Is it possible for you to shoot a pic and post it please?

[don.siegel]

The question is, why would they design a chassis to fit a 36D, or anything besides a 16D, in 1972??? And why are they even talking about the 36D, the Pittcan, or the Dynamic GE motors five years after they all went out of production? It staggers the imagination!

Anyway, I looked in my motor box, since I thought I remembered some of the white endbell jobbies, but could only find one, with a tape label marked FT-1600F-2085. And around the large bearing in the white endbell are embossed: Mabuchi - FT16 - Japan - Patent Pdg.

Will post a photo of this if Rocky can't come up with one of his - does this model ring a bell with you by the way? It's also got what looks like varnished stacks and blue-green windings.

Don

[TSR]

Quote

It staggers the imagination!

Indeed. The only possibility that seems fathomable is simply a question of cash and a huge pile of unsold FT36 motors...

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

My friend, I have no camera ability right now. I will have motors with me. Or I can have one of my kids do the photograph bit when they have time.

My assumption was that they were old stock from CHAMPION. I will tell you why, back when champion did that pseudo jail door chassis (I was given a couple as prizes in a novice race in the 60s sometime), the chassis was meant for the 26d. But these 16ds came in the car, as well, because the endbell fit the 26d bracket. The layout, with a slight gold sheen, is as described by don. I usually have one of these cars at the convention every year, sometimes both. I will bring them this year. Anyway, I thought it was a cheapened version of the 16d BB to sell left over 26d stuff. It has the same blue wire 65/30 wind of the stock 26d and so on. But the BBs were replaced with straight steel(which seems not to wear!). So, my assumption was that this was a stop gap on champion's part!

Then they showed up in TwinnK packaging, but I had already seen them.

Toy junk.

Oh, and some have a sticker on the side saying "made in Hong Kong"

I know you love these details, my friend, but I don't think on the scale of things that this is anything but an anomaly, like the stock 16ds in "Aristocraft" packages.

The manufacturers dumped a lot of stuff on us. And during the dark ages, those of us still racing would buy most anything!

Fate

[manitouguy]

not sure if this helps with the discussion

i posted the instruction leaflet for their kit mclaren about a week ago (to my blog on other slot forum ... hope linking to it is OK?)

winn wagen leaflet

regards, Ron