31 replies to this topic

[Trevor Rosenberg]

Found a small basement location in a retail mall, looking at building up a 6 lane modified UK Black style roadcourse. Considering getting it CNC cut by a friend and then doing the assembly ourselves.

Trying to figure out though a timing system, was hoping to use Lapmaster but there website mentions the software can only do a 4 or 8 lane track. What timing systems have you guys used on a 6 lane track with and had good results using?

Below is a rough draft of the track navigating its way around the two poles we inherit in the space.

[John Streisguth]

That corner in the back left area looks like it is going to be difficult to marshal, unless you make it a larger radius and banked. The ne in the right corner could be a problem as well, depending on the direction you are running it.

[Trevor Rosenberg]

The pink area is a 3 foot perimiter around the track to ensure 36" walk way around the entire track. Tightest area to pass by is 12" by the pole on the left of the drawing.

[MarkH]

Lap Master should be good on the 6 lanes. You can configure the track setup and assign the lanes as needed. You contact Carsten and ask about any issues. Perhaps he can do a custom six laner???

[Racer36]

The eight lane version of Lapmaster can be formatted to do less lanes easily. I have the 4 lane version on my new track and it is fantastic. Races run themselves and you get serenaded by Andy Wasserman.

[Samiam]

I was picturing driving it in both directions and think the 6' chute with the two near 90s  on the overpass would be smoother if it was one sweeping turn .

 

Good luck with the project and keep us updated.

[jokar124]

Trevor, where will your track be located and what classes do you intend to run?

[John Streisguth]

The pink area is a 3 foot perimiter around the track to ensure 36" walk way around the entire track. Tightest area to pass by is 12" by the pole on the left of the drawing.

Ah, ok...I wasn't sure if that was a wall or designated walking space.  Should be a nice track, good luck with the project!

[Trevor Rosenberg]

Trevor, where will your track be located and what classes do you intend to run?

Franco and I are hoping to get it setup at Hurontario and Dundas, one street east of Hurontario at 157 Dundas St East.

[Trevor Rosenberg]

I made a slight modification to the design, also i apologize for drawing the drivers panel onto the actual straight. Watching TV and didnt notice until i finished drawing that i placed it onto the track.

[Ramcatlarry]

Most club tracks and small raceways that have not interest in internet broadcasting can save a lot of cash by using Trackmate timing systems.  Trackmateracing.com

[MarkH]

We have Lap Master on two of the 4 tracks at SERG. One of the other two tracks has and older lap counter/timer and does not interface with a computer. The 4th track has Trackmate. The other tracks in the STL area have Trackmate. Most of the racers prefer Lap Master for the following reasons:

 

1) Auto Track call on breakout. This has saved a bunch of cars. Just set the breakout time and if two cars go through under that time - Andy says "Track Call. Invalid time detected" It will not record the invalid timed lap for the second car. Just place the second car behind the counter or add the lap manually and back to racing.

 

2) Qualifying - Andy Waserman's voice can call out the lap times over the speakers.

 

3) The leader of the race can be announced when there is a change

 

4) Available "Timed" practice sessions. You select the amount of time drivers can practice and the power goes off, the times will reset when the power comes back up. Andy will ask the drivers to "Please move to the next lane". This helps avoid lane hogs.

 

5) Race development can be displayed on the "Score Board". This gives a prediction of total laps based on lap averages, shows fast time / lane and most laps / lane. When we first started to use Lap Master a few years ago most were a bit confused by all the information. Now they gather about the computer monitors and plot their next lane and can see who they are really racing.

 

6) A remote is included to run the system: ie- trackcalls. Helps when there are just a few guys to marshal.

 

7) Lap times can be announced during practice. So if you are testing you don not have to take a quick look at the monitors.

 

There is more that makes this a product excellent. We have had no software or hardware issues. Lap Master was the best extra $100 bucks I have spent in racing. Carsten will support anything you may have questions on. With just the few questions I had the longest I had to wait for a response was 2 days but that was a holiday weekend.

 

Oh, by the way, if you plan to charge rental time, that is built into Lap Master. 

[Rob Voska]

I would change the one corner to a decreasing radius corner.  Lower right 165 deg 19.2 R, then come in at a tighter angle on the 9" radius under the bridge.  Also gives a little more room for a marshal in that 18" walk way.

 

Love the drawing board & T square.

[Trevor Rosenberg]

Rob,

Being our first track we will be building we figured decreasing radius corners might be a little more then we want to bite off. Now if we do go the CNC route 100% I would change some to decreasing as well make the straight under bridge into a long banana.

The 18" path is around a 4" pole so it does not offer a lot of resistance, it is solid steel though so I imagine hitting it while in a hurry would surely sting.

We also wanted to have a lot of similar radius corners that way new guys to flat track racing really only need to learn one corner. Once they figure out the one corner the rest are similar speeds and timing of braking is the key.

The other advantage of us going CNC with sectional braiding is if we do get bored of the track or want a little bit more of a challenge I can easily design replacement sections to swap in or out. CNC can rip a section in minutes, longest part of the process be painting and then attaching braid.

One of the fun items about this location is it used to be a printing shop. When you walk in the front door it has a small cargo elevator that would hold 2-4 slot boxes. Instead of fighting up and downstairs with your box it gets a valet ride up or down from the door. The floor is also false steel plates so you can remove it and lower the track right down into the storage room on a pulley lift.

[Mike K]

Nice work. I like the "drafting machine" in your photo!

[MarkH]

Trevor, do you plan to use tangential slots straights to turns or are you planning to mimic an "elliptical" transition?

[Trevor Rosenberg]

Trevor, do you plan to use tangential slots straights to turns or are you planning to mimic an "elliptical" transition?

Mark,

I am not quite understanding? The corners will be routed off the inside of the surface, so the inside lane on the corner with a 9" radius would be 13.25" radius and each lane 4.25" apart. Each corner will enter and exit the same, no tightening or softening on exit or entrance.

I may make the straight under the overpass into a banana though.

Trevor

[MSwiss]

I read your last post, but are you routing off a compass point(that will be cut off once all lanes are routed), or the inside curve of the wall itself?

[Steve Ogilvie]

From what I have seen of CNC routed tracks , they are routed similar to how a compass point cutter works .Walls to slot are equi-distant on both sides and there is no elliptical effect from straight to corners . And slot centres will stay the same regardless of wether you measure a straight section or a corner .They do this because the straights and corners can be interchanged and they will always line up .That way you can take apart a track and mate it up with other sections to make different layouts .When routing a track by hand with a cutter that rides off one side of the track , you get the elliptical effect , you get different width runoffs on corners inside compared to outside and some corners will have different lane centres .This all sounds like it is the wrong way to do things , but it gives a smoother transition in to corners and the track bed can be made narrower to save space in the building and make the track easier to marshal .If you think you need a track that can be changed around once in a while , maybe CNC is the way to go .Other than that , I think it is just an added expense .The real work is not cutting the shapes and cutting the slots .It is making the joints , leg supports , legs , sidewall brackets and cutting the pieces for the sidewalls and gluing and screwing everything together .

[Trevor Rosenberg]

Cutting it on a CNC we can cut the corners elipticaly or anyway we wish, the CNC follows whatever the drawing for the cutting file lays out for it. One of my clients owns a furniture manufacturing factory, hes offered to allow me to cut everything on the CNC free of charge. Legs, cross braces, track section, anything made of wood I can draw in CAD he will cut for me.

The only issue with cutting it on the CNC is we need to work around his schedule, large order needs to be filled it could be months before we can get on the table.

For the legs to limit the time I need on the CNC router I will likely water-jet cut all the legs, water-jet will rip through plywood like a hot knife through butter.




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[MarkH]

Wish I had someone like your friend when I was building mine. I assume you have CAD capabilities to provide the DXF / Geometry the machine needs. On this short tight track the "Elliptical" entry and exit design would be preferred.

 

Steve is obviously the expert and has provided an excellent definition. 

[Steve Ogilvie]

When corners are cut ellipticaly , they actually start and end on the straight leading in to and out of the corner .So the CNC cutter has to be set up to take that in to account .If the table is big enough , you could incorporate about 8" of straight on to each corner entry and exit to make it easy to line things up and keep your joints away from the corners .

[Trevor Rosenberg]

Steve,

I am going to draw the cutting file in CAD, if i send you a DXF can you open it? It would be nice to get your input before we turn on the CNC and cut up some wood.

I can also send you a scanned drawing of the print out if its easier for you to work with.

Mark,

If you need cutting files drawn send me a PM and I can draft them up for you.

Regards,

Trevor

[MarkH]

Thanks for the offer Trevor but I am covered. I have been using CAD for 27 years and own a seat of Solidworks. I designed my track and created the 3D solid of the racing surface on a few of the 189 different ideas. It sure makes planning a lot easier. That said, for a long time before CAD it was a board and T-Square. Still a good tool, just slower and not as flexible.

 

For those who might be interested in using CAD, Solidworks offers a free 2D package called Draft Sight. It is basically AutoCad but without the 3D Solids function.

 

Edit: I should have asked you Trevor, what CAD system are you using?

[Trevor Rosenberg]

Mark,

Siemens Solid Edge.

Trevor