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Bob Emott's box o' junk


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#1 TSR

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 10:54 PM

When one of the greatest all-times chassis builder passed away a couple of years ago, the slot car racing world lost a true giant. Gentle Bob was a good man, a very creative individual whose passion for our little racing cars was second to none. Most famous for having humbled the British pro racers in an epic race in London, Bob's cars won countless races on this side of the pond and a good sample of his wonderfully built chassis and cars have fortunately survived.

 

After he passed away, the house in which he was living in Florham Park, New Jersey, was set for demolition. Shortly before that happened, a couple of bargain hunters were allowed to have a quick lap around the place and retrieve whatever they wanted.

 

And the basement contained a little treasure trove of unused Bloom and "early Noose" bodies for various racers, some a bit crushed but salvageable, plus quite a few older-style, pre-anglewinder chassis from mid-1966 through 1967 vintage.

 

Eventually and after some negotiation, the LASCM acquired the lot.

 

Some of the items were in pretty distressed shape, as can be seen on my Facebook page where I am slowly restoring a chassis built by Mike Staskie, who was an excellent racer and part of the "traveling circus" going then from one "Arco" race to another.

 

But some, extremely well built, are still unidentified, and this is why I am posting them here.

Some of you attended the Champion organized 1967 "Nationals" in Atlanta, and may be able to confirm what these are, built by Emott or someone else?

Tony P, Noose, Howie, we need your opinion; Emott or not Emott?

This stock car chassis must have been one used at the "Nats", as its features are exactly in period, between September 1967 to March 1968, shortly before the anglewinder revolution. It was a rusty and corroded hulk, and has now gone through its first "decrud" process:

DSCN2925 - Copy.JPG

DSCN2926 - Copy.JPG

The chassis shows no sign of damage or repairs, and is of a 4.5" stocker design, and it appears that curved body retainers were also fitted to the front arches but later removed. Could it be the car driven by Emott at the Nats in the NASCAR class that winter in Atlanta?

The second item is an F1 chassis, equally well built but with some evidence of repair. The retaining wire around the drop arm is to avoid damage during cleaning and will of course be removed after doing so:

DSCN2929 - Copy.JPG
 
emott_f1_1967 (1).jpg
 
emott_f1_1967 (2).jpg

The third is a typical lightweight chassis from 1966, before sports cars became more popular.

emott_f1_1966 (1).jpg

emott_f1_1966 (2).jpg

There are others but let's start by these and see what the older gentlemen in the room think of this.

 

Thanks in advance for your feedback.


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#2 dc-65x

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 12:25 AM

Hi Philippe,

 

All very cool but I really like that stocker!  :wub:


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#3 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 01:30 AM

I think that is probably the stock car chassis of Bob's that I ran at the Arco Nats in 1967 to second place. He gave me his car to race at the Nats and he did not race in Stock Car.


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#4 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 02:33 AM

Looks the same to me... :D

 

680105MCJ8a.jpg

 

680105MCJ8b.jpg

 

 

Except of course that the front loops are missing.

 

A very rare example of an inline Emott chassis... and I'm hoping to see more!



#5 don.siegel

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 05:17 AM

Amen... can't help on the identification, but keep 'em coming! 

 

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#6 tonyp

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:15 AM

That's probably the stock car. I know he still had it. As for the other two, I have no idea.


"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#7 Bill from NH

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 07:28 AM

The bracket front face on the third, lightweight, chassis might have been cut off to build an early Emott anglewinder.

 

I'd like to eventually find out how the brass drop arm down stops were attached to the top of the lead chassis weights. Epoxy or solder?


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#8 tonyp

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 07:31 AM

The F1 on the bottom looks like it would be from the timeframe Bob was in Antarctica in the service so that might not be his.


"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#9 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 12:20 PM

The drop arms are the exact same ones I ran on my inline cars back then. 


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#10 John Gorski

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 12:46 PM

Sano!!!

 

Emott, the Chassis God!!  :good: 


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#11 TSR

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 01:23 PM

Gentlemen,

 

Thanks for your feedback. At least we got one positively identified for sure.

Now, Howie, we need a little more from you regarding the stocker. I will repair the missing front wheel arch protectors, that's an easy one.

1)  What body was used on the car, and its color scheme? Who painted it?
2) What motor was used? It has to be some kind of either a modified Mabuchi FT16 or even a modified Champion 517... ?
3) I assume the front wheels were the then ubiquitous RVM or Mini Wheels mags, but what at the rear and what color sponge?
4) Assuming again, Cox crown gear?
5)  Blue single or dual lead wires?

Please rake up your memory cells!  :)

Regarding the second chassis, could it be the one used by Bob in the F1 race at the same Nats?

Regarding the third, the comment about part of the motor bracket being used for an early anglewinder seems the most rational explanation. As far as the chassis builder, it will likely remain a mystery but I will fix it and make it a complete "period" car with a typical body used for these chassis in 1966.
 


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#12 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 01:38 PM

Regarding the five rail GP chassis, I suspect it may date to January 1968.  Here's why:

 

In October of 1967, John Wessels built the first 1/24 commercial racing chassis with moving body mounts.  Jerry Cowan drove it to victory in the 5th Car Model Road Race:

 

6710 5th CM Wessels Coupe top.jpg

 

It started the tilting body mount revolution.  Soon everyone was building chassis with moving body mounts.

 

Two months later in December 1967, John Cukras built a GP with a moving body mount, and drove it to a 2nd place finish in the Final LA Car Model race:

 

671221MCJ8 Cukras GP Dec 67.jpg

 

Mike Morrissey wrote the race report and noted this type of moving body mount on a GP car was something new.

 

Looking at the photo of the Emott GP chassis, we see the same type of moving body mount:

 

6801 Emott GP body mount.jpg

 

It is axiomatic that pro-builders like Cukras and Emott built chassis for races, and were not at all shy about copying each others good ideas (especially if they worked!)  On the reasonable presumption that Emott built this GP chassis for a race, I note that there was a Car Model race for GP cars one month later on January 20, 1968:

 

680202MCJ1 Final NY CM.jpg

 

680202MCJ8.jpg

 

Bob Emott wrote the race report, and mentioned he crashed out, presumably damaging the chassis.  Unfortunately, there are no photos.  Philippe mentioned in his OP that the chassis looks like it was damaged and repaired.

 

I'm thinking this could be Emott's chassis from that race.  Any takers?



#13 TSR

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 02:08 PM

Steve, I am not so sure: Morrissey was on the West Coast and had seen Cukras' car at least twice before since John had driven this car in September and October in two races he attended. The car was then used at the Atlanta Nats by Cukras, where he won the F1 class.
The floating mount was also seen on Californian and Eastern F1 cars since at least September according to my own notes.
The Cukras car survived and I restored it in its Nats form (with the Champion motor instead of the slotted Russkit "28") and it is now still with its original body at the LASCM:

40036_2.jpg

 

40036_6.jpg

 

40036_7.jpg

 

40036_10.jpg

 

It is possible that Emott used that F1 car in NY, as the left-front axle has hastily repaired damage (in the form of a glob of solder applied from underneath). But is it also possible that Bob would have used the same car just a month earlier in Atlanta? In any case, it came out of his house, with others from an earlier time, that I will soon show once the above is settled one way or the other.
Archeology is great and thanks for your fabulous contributions in many forms. People like you make this hobby as wonderful as it is and has been.  :)

 


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#14 tonyp

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 02:45 PM

For some reason the F1 does not look like Bob's work to me.


"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#15 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 03:24 PM

Tony,

 

If you are referring to the drop front axle and the folded-over main rails, I could certainly agree with you.  I've never seen another chassis Bob built during that period that had those features.  It just doesn't seem like Bob's building style.

 

On the other hand:

 

The slab of lead on the drop arm with the down-stop on top matches precisely the slab of lead, etc. on the stocker chassis, which we all agree is Bob's work.

 

The chassis, whoever built it, was (according to the OP) found in Bob's house.

 

At any rate, I do not know the answer, but I do know that mysteries like this are fun to figure out.

 

 

 

 



#16 tonyp

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 03:29 PM

I was referring to drop axle car.

Bob missed that first year of commercial raceways, as he was in the service which is when the other F1 would have been run.

 

He started racing again before that first Car Model race at Glen Oaks. I know Bob was collecting stuff and maybe the second F1 was in some of the stuff he bought.


"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#17 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 03:37 PM

Tony,

 

Wow!  I was going to say I'd never known Bob to collect other builder's work. I'm glad I didn't... Now I know better!  :good:



#18 olescratch

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 03:58 PM

I really don't want to take this off-topic but what is the significance of the 26 following the 517 on the motor sticker? 


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#19 TSR

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 04:00 PM

It is the wire size on the armature.


Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#20 tonyp

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 04:01 PM

I believe 26 gauge wire.


"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#21 olescratch

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 04:17 PM

Thanks for the replies.


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#22 TSR

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 04:19 PM

On the other hand:
 
The slab of lead on the drop arm with the down-stop on top matches precisely the slab of lead, etc. on the stocker chassis, which we all agree is Bob's work.
 
The chassis, whoever built it, was (according to the OP) found in Bob's house.


Because of this, plus the style of construction of the rear part of the chassis, I believe that it is likely that this F1 was in fact, built by Bob and possibly the one involved in that January crash.

 

Of course impossible to prove at this time. But we have made good progress today!


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#23 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 04:32 PM

Philippe,

 

Yes, I suppose it's possible this GP chassis appeared in both races (or perhaps neither!).

 

My assessment was based on the published articles for both races. The MRJ article for the January Car Model race shows Bob as coming in fourth. The articles (CM and MRJ) for the December Arco race show him as being there but do not mention his entering the GP race. This of course does not prove he didn't run in the Arco GP race, but it also isn't evidence he did.

 

You have got me wondering about those moving body mounts on GP cars seemingly predating the October Wessels/Cowan Car Model winner. Is this documented anywhere you know about?



#24 TSR

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 05:23 PM

Steve,

 

I don't know but Morrissey was well aware of Cukras' F1 car because he ran it in the final Rod & Custom F1 race, same car, same body mount, and Morrissey and Cukras had that newspaper together...  and there were pictures!

I have no time to look for it right now but check the magazines from September 1967 through March 1968; the car is shown several times.


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#25 tonyp

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:14 PM

Moving body mounts were used in F1 in the Car Model race by John and Bryan after the GTC race Cowan won.


"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#26 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:45 PM

Tony,

 

That's the point I've been trying to make. Keyword "after" as in "after the GTC race Cowan won."



#27 TSR

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 05:27 PM

Similarities in details and construction are quite apparent to me, even if the dropped front axle is uncharacteristic of Emott's methods of construction. I have to "attribute" the chassis to Robert Emott, or at least consider that it is one possibly built by someone else but modified/used by Bob...

1.jpg

2.JPG

3.JPG

I guess this is as far as we can go on this thread... thanks all for your opinions and suggestions.  :)


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#28 Tex

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 10:16 PM

I wonder if the treatment at the very front, of the guideholder itself, is of any significance(?).

Note that on the Emmott stock car, the very front piece of supporting brass isn't one piece wrapped around the tubing that would hold the guide post... it's actually two separate pieces, one coming up each side of the assembly.

On the F1 chassis, that similar piece of brass appears to be just one wraparound piece.
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#29 TSR

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:56 AM

Thing is, in those early days, each new chassis we built was a new experiment... it is really only when the anglewinder design was set and kind of frozen for a few years that builders (and Emott being one) began building series of nearly identical chassis.


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Philippe de Lespinay
 
"We are the D..., uh, the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"


#30 tonyp

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 11:27 AM

The problem is there are so few pictures of east coast inline chassis in the magazines back then.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#31 Dave Crevie

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 03:09 PM

Dokk,

 

You really nailed it with that statement that every chassis we built was different.

 

It seemed that each week someone would come up with a new idea and the next week everyone would have either a new chassis with that idea incorporated or have that modification on their existing chassis. I have not witnessed that amount of innovation in slot racing since.

 

Maybe that helped to keep slot racing popular. I have seen some of it in Retro, and that has become the popular type of slot racing over the past several years.

 

I have a box full of old sixties chassis that I built and I want to restore, something I should have started twenty years ago when my memory wasn't so fuzzy. 


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